Genital Mutilation

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-04-2003
Genital Mutilation
7
Wed, 06-11-2003 - 1:02pm
FYI- I have noticed a lot of people quoting Genital Mutilation on this board

so here are a few facts

1) IT WAS CREATED BY WOMEN FOR WOMEN.......it wasn't imposed on women by men at all. I am an african woman who konws this for a fact. Many women actually choose to get the process done. The only thing wrong with it is when you are FORCED to get it done to you

2) People can get the procedure (like abortion ) done SAFELY and CLEANLY in a hospital

3) These women do not liek to be called MUTILATED....that is something that white women coined up. They are proud that they are circumcised. Whether you agree with it or not.

So how's that for PRO CHOICE? Some women choose to do it .....some women DONT and have it forced on them. Yet a lot of women who claim to be both pro choice and pro life (but especially pro choice) condemn it like these women are just IGNORANT SAVAGES who dont know what they are doing.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-11-2003
In reply to: omoomi
Wed, 06-11-2003 - 3:12pm
troll much lately?

femal genital mutilation, sometimes referred to as female circumsision, is not something any woman would like. it is not a white versus black thing or a racial thing. more than just Africa has it going on. Would you seriously think that any woman would want her clitorus cut out and her vagina sown up? Who in those coutries would be able to afford to go to a nice clean hospital to get this procedure done? It is practiced on CHILDREN. children. God. help them. It was created by men who beleived that a woman is full of sin and the unable to control herself around men so that se would net cheat on her husband or future husband. NO WOMAN came up with this. You really should get better informedbefore spouting this kind of stuff. unless you are only a troll trying to cause trouble? white women didn't coin anything. It was an outcry made by the women who ahd this done to them as children and grew and found out it didn't have to ahve been done to them.

"So how's that for PRO CHOICE? Some women choose to do it .....some women DONT and have it forced on them. Yet a lot of women who claim to be both pro choice and pro life (but especially pro choice) condemn it like these women are just IGNORANT SAVAGES who dont know what they are doing. "

I canot make heads or tails of this paragraph. please explain yourself better. it makes no sense.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-04-2003
In reply to: omoomi
Wed, 06-11-2003 - 5:09pm
A troll?

what is that?!!

You're the one who does not make sense.

FEMALE CIRCUMCISION is a female practice.

I have worked with human rights lawyers who have gone and worked personally in those areas where it is most common. I am also PERSONALLY from a country where it is practiced and have witnessed it.

And its sad that you so readily bit into the MEN created it to control their women.

In the moiddle east , where it is also practice ( not just Africa) that myth exists that a woman will be loose is she is not circumcised

in AFRICA that is not the case. In most countries/areas where it is practiced it is done by the women FOR the women.

YOu really should not go around accusing people of being uninformed.

What you consider a child is considered a woman in Africa. At least she is a woman after she has the practice done. Most often it is done when she has had her first period.

Crazy, as it may sound there ARE women who voluntarily wants this done to them. They mainly want it for acceptance......same logic in the UNited states when teens do crazy things for acceptance....

I am not saying i like the practice ...i am simply saying that before AMERICAN women go around up in arms they shoudl get FULLY informed. Dont just beleive what you see on OPRAH. there are two sides to every coin.

If you want women to stop doing that to themselves ...you have to convince them that its no longer necessary.

Lemme explain myself again. I was likening it to the pro choice movement....because as some pro choicers say IT IS HER BODY TO DO WITH AS SHE PLEASES.......that is what these women say also.

Simple enough for you?

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-11-2003
In reply to: omoomi
Wed, 06-11-2003 - 5:44pm
I really think you are greatly misinformed about this.

a troll is someone who deliberatly posts with the intent of disrupting the board. I am suspecting that you might be one. maybe i am wrong and you just are one of those kind of people who talk first before they have all their facts together? female circumsision is not a femal practice although it is usually done by a woman to a CHILD. It is not always waited until the girl child has had her first period.I have never seen Oprah so I do not know what you are tlaking about there.and you were very specific about the white woman black woman thing. and very wrong for it.it is rarely voluntary, rarely done in a hospital, and commonly results in horrible scarring, sexual disfunction, infection and even death. you were born in Africa? so cool though. I was born in America, but raised for a while in england. but this really has nothing to do with abortion. I would be interested in hearing more though.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-04-2003
In reply to: omoomi
Thu, 06-12-2003 - 10:58am
Im not sure i understnad hwy you are calling me a troll......is it because i said something that very few people know.

I was not just born in Africa. I was RAISED there. I spen a greater part of my life there. I understand the cultures that this is practiced in.

Of course it is not always practiced on children who have reached puberty. Like i said the practice is wrong when it is FORCED onto the woman.

But if the woman wants to do it willingly its another matter.

As for you saying it is rarely done in hospitals ...DUH! did i say that it was done there all the time?

IT is a new effort on the part of african doctors so as to COMBAT the scarring and diseases that result from the procedure.

This may have nothing to do with abortion but it has a lot to do with the Pro Chice movement.

Oh and yeah...you shouldn't accuse me of not having my facts together simply because i am stating something that you did not know about. I have all my facts thank you very much. Try to keep in mind that i NEVER said it was a nice practice i just said that it was created by women, performed on women and there are women who want it done to them. Thats all

As for the White woman black woman thing, if you do not realize that not all women are the same then i cant help you. The average black woman has a VERY different beliefe system from teh average white woman. We grow up in different cultures even within the same country. I hope you are aware of this.

The women who said that they do not like to be referred to as MUTILATED are well within their right to say so. In fact, the greatest opposers to the ending of genital mutilation are not MEN but women. These women see the white people who come into their towns and villages as intruders who do not understand their way of life. That is why i said it is not easy to say END The practice......you have to target the very culture that it comes from itself.

Anyhoo......i will drop this debate for now and move it to another board.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-11-2003
In reply to: omoomi
Fri, 06-13-2003 - 12:21am
I am still wondering what this topic has to do with abortion debate? but ok then. I still think you are mostly trying to cause a disturbance than anything else. and personally. I don't care if someone is purple polka dotted, we are all HUMAN BEINGS. You sounded prejudiced in the way you first presented the black/white thing and are wrong for it. the first way that this was brought to lite anyways was the black women who left that country and found a new way of life and discovered that the horror they had gone through was unnessary and cruel. just because I mostly was raised in either USA or Great Britain doesn';t mean I understand all the crasy cultural things that sometimes go in these countries. I don't understand why abortion is even debated in the USA. it is no one's business but the woman and her Dr.
Avatar for placidreverie
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: omoomi
Fri, 06-13-2003 - 1:20am
Hi, I would like to know if you've read Alice Walker's novel Posessing the Secret of Joy, because if you haven't then you are missing a huge part of this issue. I am in a Women Writers class and we are now discussing and reading this book. We have also watched the documentary by Walker called Warrior Marks, which portays the pain that the women in Africa are in. I believe that you have your facts a bit skewed...

1) IT WAS CREATED BY WOMEN FOR WOMEN.......it wasn't imposed on women by men at all. I am an african woman who konws this for a fact. Many women actually choose to get the process done. The only thing wrong with it is when you are FORCED to get it done to you

And why would women voluntarily do this??? The only thing that makes women decide to be genitally mutilated is the society that pressures the women. In tribes, if you are not circumcised you are outcast or even killed. The reason you are circumcised is so the husbands know who their children are and so they can make sure their wives aren't tramping around. It is a way to control women, and when the husband leaves he can conventiently sew the women up. It is also believed that the male's sexual organ is an ant hill, and the clitoris is a termite hill (which is a bigger hill). At God's approach, the termite hill rose up and blocked the passage, which was showing masculinity, so God cut down the termite hill and had sex with the excised earth.

2) People can get the procedure (like abortion ) done SAFELY and CLEANLY in a hospital

Note, the word "can", but this is not always the case. In many places where hospitals are not available, the circumcisers use knives that are used on two or more girls that are not even cleaned off.

3) These women do not liek to be called MUTILATED....that is something that white women coined up. They are proud that they are circumcised. Whether you agree with it or not.

The maimed character Tashi, in the novel at first goes along with the circumcision because she thinks it is part of her culture, but there is a difference between "culture" and "torture". The circumcison screws up her whole life, and she has nightmares and becomes insane.

Some think that this is an isolated issue, but in fact there is still circumcision going on in the UNITED STATES...estimated 10,000 per year. A quote from the book: "If you lie to yourself about your own pain, you will be killed by those who claim you enjoyed it."

Another question: Were you circumcised? How old were you?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
In reply to: omoomi
Fri, 06-13-2003 - 8:54pm
Sorry I've seen documentaries about this which interviewed Africans----this is a cultural thing and in most instances it is forced. This rite is preformed on young girls----girls who even if they agree do so because the culture says it is the right thing to do. I will give you that perhaps many in the African culture think it is a wonderful thing----but I doubt very much that such a thing was thought of by women. This practice reminds of of the old Chinese practice of binding the feet of women----even women in China thought it was the thing to do, but it was crippling and hurtful----and stopping the practice was the right thing to do.

Ruth

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