Induced Miscarriage - abortion?

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-26-2006
Induced Miscarriage - abortion?
21
Sat, 05-12-2007 - 12:06am

I wonder for those who happen to be pro-life how you feel about induced miscarriage?? Do you consider techniques - such as eating herbs that are known to induce and support miscarriage - or uterine massage that is designed to induce and support miscarriage - as "abortion". When there is no surgical or medical aspect - and women use thier OWN bodies in a way which they understand will lead to the extraction of an embryo naturally -is this still considered an abortion? The RESULT is the SAME as a unintended miscarriage. If you are agianst abortion (medical and surgical) should EVERY substance or activity that can induce a miscarriage ALSO be banned? Is a gentle natural method that does not "harm" an embryo or fetus (most pro-lifers portray images of "babies" limbs being riped apart as it tries to squirm away from pain exc) "morally superior" to a the medical and surgical methods which define "abortion" as it is wildy known in mainstream america? Are the two things even similar?

Herbalists and those very experienced with natural healing and pregnancy prevention - are usually very intuned with thier cycles - often taking herbs as soon as 36 hours after sex to prevent pregnancy or induce a very early miscariage if an embryo happened to implant. There are also methods like "Menstral extraction" which is a way to shorten the length of a period by "draining" ALL the material (blood and tissue - which would include a blastocyst/zygote/embryo) out of the cervix/uterous exc. This procedure can be done monthly at home (even if abortions become illegal - this safe holistic home based technique should not be affected and it effective in causing "abortion" up until the 7th week of pregnancy) and has signifigantly lower risks then typical Aspiration abortions as the cervix does NOT need to be dilated and there is no scraping or risk of infection exc.

It seems that people - especially pro-life people - believe that the only way to end a pregnancy is through a medical or surgical prodecure - which is seen as morally reprehensible. There are a VAST and WIDE range of holistic options for NATURALLY inducing miscarriage - that are NOT under attack. I just wonder why. Is it because pro-lifers realise that a induced miscarriage isin't something that is documented, that can be controoled, or that can be illegalized (how do you illegalize miscarriage? or tell the diffrence between "induced" miscarriage or natural miscarriage KWIM?) or used for political agenda? or it is for some other reason?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-18-2005
Sat, 05-12-2007 - 6:50am

I am not pro-life but I would think that logically it would be the same thing.

I think you do not hear about it b/c it is normally not documented and the herbs do not need a prescription from a doctor.

IMO only, it seems more humane but it is still an abortion.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-13-2003
Sat, 05-12-2007 - 7:16am

>>The RESULT is the SAME as a unintended miscarriage. <<


the end result might be the same but it's totally different than an uninteneded micarriage. to take herbs to purposely try to abort is different than a spontaneous mc. if you're trying to rid yourself of a pregnancy than it's still abortion.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-07-2007
Sat, 05-12-2007 - 8:43am

A miscarriage is often time termed a spontaneous abortion, though. In this case we're simply dealing with a case of semantics.

To the op, I'm PC so as far as I'm concerned what a woman does with her own body, pregnant or not is her own business. I cannot keep a pregnant woman from drinking alcohol, taking drugs or smoking cigarettes. I cannot keep a pregnant woman from lifting heavy objects or from other physical activity that could cause a spontaneous abortion and I certainly can't tell if any pregnant woman is doing these things on purpose or not.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-28-2007
Mon, 05-14-2007 - 3:01pm
PC but yes I consider that abortion also.
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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 05-14-2007 - 4:30pm
PC...anything done (Naturally or surgically, or otherwise ) which aims to end a pregnancy is an abortion. From taking hearbs to having a D&C.
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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 05-22-2007 - 2:46pm

If the "motive" is to end the pregnancy, then yes, using herbs or stimulation of any kind would be the same as paying a doctor to do it for you. The motive and outcome are still the same.

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-03-2007
Sun, 06-03-2007 - 10:54am

Yup it's still the same - and what this really brings up is that women in all cultures, as far back as we know of, have always done their best to control their fertility. There have been times and places when we only had methods that were partially effective, or effective but horribly dangerous.
The World Health Organization states that 68,000 women die every year from complications of unsafe illegal abortion, and while some of it is from the backalley self-taught "doc", some of that is from traditional methods of inserting pessaries or taking strong purgatives such as ergot derivatives which are very effective abortifacients at the right dose but can kill if too much is taken, or if taken too far along in the gestation.

Making abortion illegal simply drives women to do things without proper support and education. Whether she is choosing to use ergot with the advice and support of a midwife, or a vacuum aspiration with a physician, she is safe. When she does something to herself based on hearsay or out of desperation she is at risk.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-31-2007
Wed, 06-06-2007 - 6:21pm

Wow! What an interesting post. This is not something I had thought about at length before, but a great point. Further illustrating how women will forever have charge over their own bodies. It makes me believe in my position even more. Even if abortion was outlawed... there would still be abortions (of some sort) taking place. Keep it legal, keep it regulated & keep it safe... that's pretty much what I think.

Anywho (tangent)... I think that any action one takes to end a life that already has begun is an abortion. A purposeful action with the intention of ending a life. Although the result of the "induced miscarriage" & "unintended miscarriage" are the same.... the key word is intended. As one intends to abort with a surgical abortion. It may or may not be more painful to the embryo... we don't know.

I don't know anything about menstral extraction, but if it took place after the fertilized egg implanted in the uterus...then I would call that an abortion, as well. If it was before the egg implanted as a means of prevention of pregnancy...then I see nothing wrong with it. Same with herbs taken to prevent or EC.

We obviously cannot (successfully) outlaw what women can do in the privacy of their own homes. Just because we can't stop it though...doesn't make it morally right. JMO.

~Trio

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-31-2007
Wed, 06-06-2007 - 6:29pm

ITA, and could not have said it better myself :-)

~Trio

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 06-07-2007 - 10:53am

I didn't say using herbs or a natural means to induce miscarriage made it "right" and the question wasn't about safety or monitoring safety....I said the outcome or motive was the same...abortion.

We could bring into the discussion the case of the young couple who had the boyfriend beat the young girlfriend in the stomach with a bat to kill the fetus and end the pregnancy. What do we call this? Obviously this is a crime on the part of the boy...in this case they are arguing if this is a crime on the part of the girl...I think the whole thing is a crime, in part because they lied about it...abortion is legal, they never should have done this..who paid her medical costs? Taxpayers? In this way did they not have to pay for the abortion? Or were they just two scared, dumb kids? I don't know...

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20050420.html

Sue

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