Interesting info on remains.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Interesting info on remains.
113
Fri, 11-07-2003 - 5:46pm
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After fighting abortion for 30 years I thought I had seen and heard

it all, but not so. Here is a new development, a coordinated high-

tech industry functioning for the specific purpose of obtaining and

selling high-quality fetal organs for research.

Partial-Birth abortions seemed to be so horrible that most of us

wondered how such procedures could be defended. Many of us chalked it

up to the fact that the pro-abortion advocates and the abortion

industry didn't want to give one inch for fear that their whole house

of cards will fold. I, among others, felt that their resistance to

forbidding this gruesome procedure was a fear of a domino effect. If

we stopped this one, then we'd stop the next and the next and the

next and they didn't want it to start. But now we have evidence of a

very clear additional reason why they want these late-term abortions

to continue. The reason is that this is the one method that gives

them intact fetal bodies from which they can obtain organs for

research.

The other method of late-term abortion, D&E (Dilatation and

Evacuation), involves reaching up into the uterus and dismembering

the live baby. This delivers pieces of macerated organs that are

usually unsuitable for fetal research, transplantation etc. This may

be the main reason for their vehement defense of the practice of

Partial-Birth abortion.>>

The story was broken recently by Life Dynamics under the guidance of

its director, Mark Crutcher. A lady came to him with a story, which

he has verified. The name of the informant cannot be revealed, as she

is still involved in the work that she has exposed. Her story is

dramatically recorded in a video just released by Life Dynamics. In

it, this woman under the pseudonym, Kelly, tells her story. Her back

is to the camera and her voice is electronically altered to prevent

her identification. She worked for "an outside source, hired with a

team to go in to dissect and procure

fetal tissue for high-quality sales." Read on as Kelly describes her

macabre profession. "What we did was to have a contract with an

abortion clinic that would allow us to go there on certain days. We

would get a generated list each day to tell us what tissue

researchers, pharmaceutical companies and universities were looking

for. Then we would examine the patient charts. We would screen out the

ones we didn't want.

We did not use specimens that had STDs or fetal abnormalities. We only wanted the most perfect

specimens that we could give to the researchers." And the age of

these babies? The victims were up to and over 30-weeks gestation. "We

were looking for eyes, livers, brains, thymuses ,

cardiac blood, cord blood, blood from the liver, even blood from the

limbs."

Only an estimated 2% of the late-term aborted babies had

abnormalities. "The rest were very healthy. 95% of the time, she was

just there to get rid of the baby." How many of the late-term - the

ones around 30 weeks - would you see? "Probably 30 or 40 babies a

week."

Kelly stated, "We would sell the tissue to private contractors. They

in turn would sell to other universities and researchers. There was a

high demand every week to buy such fetal tissues. It was shipped by

UPS, FedEx, Airborne and sometimes by special couriers. Sometimes we

would take the specimen in a box to the airport and put it on as

regular cargo, to be picked up at the destination." And did these

shipping companies know they were transporting baby parts? "No. All

they knew was that it was just human cells. But it could be a

completely intact fetus. It might be a batch of eyes, or 30 or 40

livers going out that day, or thymuses

And the leftover parts? "We would usually put this down the garbage

disposal along with the placenta and the leftover blood material. If

it was too large to go down the drain, they had a special freezer and

when they accumulated 60 or 70 fetuses in one box, it would be picked

up for incineration."

And then the obvious question. Kelly is still working for this

company, so why did she come and tell this story to a pro-life group?

One day when she was working, "A set of twins at 24 weeks gestation

was brought to us in a pan. They were both alive. The doctor came

back and said, `Got you some good specimens, twins.' I looked at him

and said, `There's something wrong here. They are moving. I don't do

this. This is not in my contract.' I told him I would not be part of

taking their lives. So he took a bottle of sterile water and poured it

in the pan until the fluid came up over their mouths and noses,

letting them drown. I left the room because I could not watch this."

But she did go back and dissect them after they were dead. She said,

"That's when I decided it was wrong. I did not want to be there when

that happened." And then it happened again and again. "At 16 weeks,

all the way up to sometimes even 30 weeks, and we had live births come

back to us." And then? "Then the doctor would either break the neck

or take a pair of tongs and beat the fetus until it was dead."

Did the abortionist ever alter the procedures to get you the type of

specimens you needed that day? Her answer was "Yes, before the

procedures they would want to see the list of what we wanted to

procure. The would get us the most complete, intact

specimens that he could. They would be delivered to us completely

intact. Sometimes the fetus appeared to be dead, but when we opened

up the chest cavity, the heart was still beating." She was asked if

the type of abortion procedure was intentionally altered to deliver

to you an intact specimen, even if that meant giving you a live baby?

Her answer was, "Yes, that was so we could sell better tissue, so

that our company would make more money. At the end of the year, they

would give the clinic back more money because we got good specimens."

The Partial-Birth abortion procedure involves inserting seaweed

laminaria into the cervix. This swells up, dilating the cervix. In

24 hours, new laminaria are inserted. This produces more swelling and

dilatation so that by the third day the baby can be extracted. During

the dilatation procedure she is sent to a nearby motel. Sometimes the

laminaria would fall out and she would go into labor and deliver the

baby. And then? "They would call the nurse, and the nurse would call

the doctor who would go to the motel room and pick up the woman and

the fetus. That's when they would call us and say, `Okay, we've got

a couple of specimens here,' or `We've got one specimen.' We would go

and the specimen would be in a bucket,

sometimes alive. When we opened the chest cavity the heart would

still be beating. Sometimes we could see movement in the bucket.

These babies had to come out alive. There's no way for them to be

coming out dead. They were all alive. How they killed them is

anyone's guess. My guess is that they had to kill them in the bucket

or put them in a corner and let them die slowly." And that was

because the abortionist had seen how strongly you reacted to seeing

them killed in front of you? "That's correct. And he did not want to

repeat those instances but they kept happening anyway, and that's how

I came to call you guys ."

Finally, Kelly related how sometimes a woman, halfway through the

dilatation procedure, would change her mind and say she did not want

the abortion. In such a case they would tell her that it's too late

now. "You're going to have the abortion." Kelly said, "All of the

staff would gather around pressuring her to have the abortion. On the

second day, they're given an IV sedation, which kind of puts them

into what I call a Nyquil nap. They're just basically drowsy, not

thinking for themselves and that's basically how they are coerced

into continuing the procedure."

Now We Know Why

Now we know one of the major reasons why the abortion industry is

fighting so intensely to prevent a ban on Partial-Birth abortion from

being enacted. It's more than not giving any ground on abortion for

any reason. It's also because selling fetal parts is a very lucrative

part of the abortion business. These mothers pay large sums of money

for late-term abortions and the abortionists in turn are given big

money for these intact organs. The model specimens have to be: the

bigger - the better; the older - the better; the more alive - the

better.


OK< I know that the article was from Life Dynamics, but I don't know where to find it. It was emailed to me c&p without an addy. Believe me, LD won't sue over my use of their article as long as they have the proper credit attributed.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 11-07-2003 - 6:16pm
I had heard and read about this as well...but only had pl sources to back it up so never posted about it...obviously there won't be any pc info on it...not good for business, eh?

But I believe it to be true...have seen the price lists for organs, etc. Have heard from ex abortionists own mouths that this is true. Why would they lie? This is also what is so appealing about cloning.

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Sat, 11-08-2003 - 4:43pm
I think that by denying what is actually done with the human remains makes it easier for many(not all) PC. Again, if they could lower their shields of Femininin Might, and just be honest about what happens to them, what the abortion is, and what happens after the abortion with the HUMAN remains, I could hold a greater amount of respect for the individual who does so. Denial makes it NOT TRUE to them and makes it far easier. I mean, it is bad enough to terminate your child, but then to admit that it will be used as a science experiement - OHG, who could live with that? Admitting it for many, would make it reality.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 11-09-2003 - 9:42am

OK, no offense to you in particular Winds, but I'm getting REALLY tired of this train of thought on this board.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Sun, 11-09-2003 - 6:04pm
Mom2, I can't help this line of thought because it is the basis for my belief, kind of like your "MY WOMB, MY CHOIC" reasoning. I don't believe human beings are disposable and I don't believe that their remains are to be used to experament on. What is next, creating beings only to abort in the second trimester as to harvest parts? I am very sure that there are women who would volunteer themselves for this for the right amount of money, but I am DIE HARD against this infraction of humanity.

I am an organ donor. I have made that choice about MY bodily parts - even against my dh's wants. A pre-birth human is not junk parts. So, what you are saying is it is ok to make a human life as to take it to save or enhance another? No way! That is worse than a horror movie - wasn't there a few movies in which people were killing others for their skin and such - Silence of the Lamb, Hotel Hell, Texas Chain Saw...., it is the stuff nighmares are made of. I would fight with my LIFE in order to prevent this type of madness. It is sick and wrong, wrong wrong!

Look at your daughter, is she spare parts? I know that my child isn't. Is her body YOURS to do with as you please? Not hardly. When did that come to be? 2 seconds after her birth? Wrong, the moment that her life force began she was separate from you! Albeit, she relied on you, just as she does today, but she was still a separate being with separate vital signs and needs. Her body may have existed inside of yours, but it was nontheless hers. You created that body by choice when you copulated with her father. That is the choice you made - once she was created - she deserved her own destiny. Abortion prevents that. I am against it wholeheartedly. But more so, stem cell research, organ harvesting, and creating to destroy! Sickening!!! The thought makes me want to yak!

I'm sorry if I was hard about this, but you seem soooooooooo cold about it. I'm so sorry that you feel the way you do. My heart actually aches for you and your view on life. It is really sad.

A.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Sun, 11-09-2003 - 6:24pm

Excuse me but I would not be afraid to admit that if I had a bortion i would donate my

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 11-09-2003 - 6:51pm

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I hear the violins in the background now.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-11-2003
Sun, 11-09-2003 - 8:35pm
I give a standing ovation. what a wonderful wonderful work of fiction. delightful and entertaining, the critics give two thumbs up!!!!!! the drama and suspense are phenominal(spelling?)


to add to this

as abhorent as I find the thought of a 30 week abortion for no reason than possibly inconvienece and a change of mind(ugh, i am going to be sick)at least the fetus didn't die for nothing. at least it will be helping others rather than going into a garbage pail and incinerated and forgotten about.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Sun, 11-09-2003 - 9:20pm
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The only denial is that of the rights of a totally separate human being. Denying a truth to make an action easier is not livng in denial if you know the truth. Living in denial is not accepting the truth. These 'its' and 'waste' and 'choices' are human beings who are being denied.

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I do? That is not my intent. I know my mother's faults and I know that she is not so cold or heartless or pathetic or ignorant. Neither was Erica, or Tara or the countless other people who I love and cherish who have taken this CHOICE! These are women I love and respect and know from the inside out. 'Some' of these women I held while they cried and suffered over the choice made. Other's, did not cry. Heck, one, my BEST friend since childhood even had a second abortion - having asked me to take her to do it! I told her no, but also told her I loved her and was there for her - I could not help her to do what I could not live with on my contious. You are incorrect about my efforts.

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Not true - you don't support the mother of a daughter who is PL retaining her parental right to raise and indocterine her own child in the best way she sees fit, you do not support the countless women lost through the abortion choice of their mother, you do not support those of us who have survived that choice and feel in our hearts that it is a wrong choice for anyone, electively. What about the unborn women who's 'walk of life' you don't even acknowledge? I disagree with your support of all women. Not all women are PC.

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I won't support a woman's choice to commit adultery, I won't support a woman's choice to abandon or abuse her children, I won't support a woman's choice to party over being a parent to the children she willfully created and kept, I won't support a woman's choice to abuse her children or spouse, I won't support a woman's choice if it harms another. That is not a choice, but a crime. IMHO!

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This is NOT a right. It is a misconception of a law by a court of liberal minded judges who wanted to go down in history famously. It is not a right granted by any writing in our constitution spacifically, it is a percieved right. I am tired, very tired of heraring aboriton being called a 'Woman's RIGHT'. What if all of us PL's gave you back that right and we put it to a vote, majority wins. What if the majority of women aren't being represented by abortion? There are RIGHTS such as equality, voting, access to healthcare, dignity, life, the right to no harm, the rights of education and equal opportunity - the right to take life belongs to no one. I cannot even feel pride in saying the phrase Women's Rights, because of this little snag. Can't you understand that?

<<...and freedoms of life.>>

??? What freedoms of life? We no longer have that, for it is some woman's CHOICE!

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Sun, 11-09-2003 - 9:25pm
OK, let's take all who's lives are denied them, the child that dies of lukemia, the grandmother of a stroke, the mother who dies in CHILDBIRTH or post ABORTION and let's just use them as a science project!!! We can't respect life, so why should we respect the remains thereof, right? My G-d, what kind of world do we live in ???

I am an organ donor - I have made a CHOICE about myself and my remains. Every human being should be given that right. Do you know that Jews must be burried in tact or they cannot reach heaven??? What do you say about that when you think that our remains are are fodder for the field???

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Sun, 11-09-2003 - 10:34pm

No winds it is not denial to make a concious choice for yourself your life your body...living in denial is when one think's they

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