Myshka, the link you asked about...

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Registered: 03-21-2003
Myshka, the link you asked about...
27
Fri, 06-27-2003 - 9:50pm
Here is the link to the site for the clinic in KS. http://www.drtiller.com/elect.html

Kim 

Mom to Brad, Ma

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Sat, 06-28-2003 - 11:28am
Thanks for posting that Munchies ... I had forgotten about that site! Ther is actually another one I am searching for now. Meanwhile I found this interesting.

http://www.mdrtl.org/LawFAQ.html

MARYLAND'S ABORTION LAW


Does the Maryland law protect babies after viability (when the child is able to survive outside the womb with or without artificial support)?

No. In fact, the law allows abortions after viability if needed to protect the "health" of the mother. "Health" is defined very broadly, to include "distress...associated with the unwanted child,...the problem of bringing a child into a family already unable, psychologically and otherwise, to care for it,...the additional difficulties and continuing stigma of unwed motherhood...." Under Maryland law, any abortion--even a late abortion well after viability--performed because the unborn child is "unwanted" is considered a legal abortion provided for "health" reasons.

******** I haven't researched this yet (and will) but it sure reads like sometimes the *health* of the mom may be misleading and not a direct threat to her life or health as some are led to believe. Besides IMHO after viability why not do a c/s to give mom and child both a chance at life?



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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-21-2003
Sat, 06-28-2003 - 11:41am
I already knew about the "health" issue. It was actually the second Supreme Court ruling concerning abortion that allowed for the broad interpretation of "health". So abortion was no longer for a life threatening situation, where the mother's physical well-being was at risk. As far as as doing a c/s, it is actually far more riskier to have a c/s. It is not routine, though it's done daily. It's a major abdominal surgery with risks of bleeding, infection, and an extended recovery. It would be better to induce and let labor happen. And technically they do that for a ID&X. They just reach up and pull out the fetus by the feet.

Kim 

Mom to Brad, Ma

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Sat, 06-28-2003 - 11:47am
Well c/s or induced my point was if the baby is viable why abort instead of trying to save both lives?

I think the choice between c/s and induction would be based on what the mother's orb baby's) particular problem is?

I know that my friend has a scheduled c/s planned based on the fact that her child has known issues and they feel a c/s birth would be less stressful on him.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 06-28-2003 - 1:40pm
"At Women's Health Care Services, we specialize in "late" abortion care. We are able to perform elective abortions to the time in the pregnancy when the fetus is viable. Viability is not a set point in time. Viability is determined by the attending physician and is based on sonogram results, physical examination and last menstrual period date (if known). Our telephone counselors will ask you a number of medical questions to determine if you are eligible for an elective abortion. If you have visited another clinic or physician, we will ask for the results from a recent ultrasound."

Okay, so they do late term abortions up to viability. Viability is 24 weeks. This is legal in a handful of states. This doesnt prove that these folks are doing so called "PBA's." And it certainly doesnt prove they are doing elective abortions past viability. In fact, quite the opposite.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-21-2003
Sat, 06-28-2003 - 3:25pm
It says right there that viability is not a set point in time. Nothing there about 24 weeks. And how could they not be doing PBAs or ID&X unless they are not doing the "safest" method of aborting an unwanted fetus? I say safest not because I think it is, but because some in this field feel it is.

Kim 

Mom to Brad, Ma

Avatar for myshkamouse
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 06-28-2003 - 4:29pm
It says right there that viability is not a set point in time. Nothing there about 24 weeks."

Elective abortion happens to be illegal after 24 weeks. Therefore, its seriously doubtful that any legit clinic would risk performing an abortion after 24 weeks.

" And how could they not be doing PBAs or ID&X unless they are not doing the "safest" method of aborting an unwanted fetus? I say safest not because I think it is, but because some in this field feel it is."

Perhaps they are doing ID&X. But, its not done for elective reasons on a viable fetus, or, a fetus who is at or greater than 24 weeks gestation.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Sat, 06-28-2003 - 4:31pm
It very plainly says that viability is NOT set for them .. so 24 weeks MAY apply other places but clearly it is not set in stone in this place.

And if you read the procedure part of it -- it clearly describes what is done.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Sat, 06-28-2003 - 4:33pm
you ask for proof, get it and still refuse to believe it.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Sat, 06-28-2003 - 4:35pm
http://www.drhern.com/procedures.htm#MEDICAL%20PROCEDURES%202nd%20Tri

20 to 26 Weeks

Four day outpatient procedure

Late second trimester patients receive all of their preoperative evaluation and consultation on the first day of their appointment, and return on the second day for the initial steps of the abortion procedure.

At 20 menstrual weeks and later, the first step in the abortion procedure on the second day of her appointment is an injection of medication into the fetus that will stop the fetal heart instantly. The patient is awake during this procedure, which is done under local anesthesia and with the use of direct ultrasound vision. The woman does not observe the fetus on the ultrasound screen in this process. The injection, done with strict attention to sterile technique, usually takes about ten minutes, although the appointment may take longer because of preparations that must be made.

Following the injection into the fetus, the first laminaria is placed in the cervix. The patient may leave at that time and must stay in Boulder unless arrangements are made for the patient to stay in a neighboring town.

On the third day, the late second trimester patient returns for a brief appointment, at which time the first laminaria is removed and more are placed under local anesthesia. This process permits maximum gentle dilation of the cervix over a two-day period.

On the fourth day, the patient returns for her abortion. Following observation of vital signs (blood pressure, temperature, and pulse), the laminaria are removed and a long-acting local anesthesia is again placed in the cervix. Under direct ultrasound vision, the amniotic membrane is ruptured so as to permit free flow of the amniotic fluid from the uterus. The amniotic fluid is drained as completely as possible. Dr. Hern developed this technique for the following reasons:

Removal of the amniotic fluid reduces if not eliminates the risk of amniotic fluid embolism (AFE), probably the most dangerous possible complication of late abortion.

Release of the amniotic fluid allows the uterus to contract and become firm, reducing the risk of perforation of the uterus with instruments.

Contraction of the uterus reduces blood loss.

Release of the amniotic fluid and contraction of the uterus enhances movement of the fetus and placenta into the cervix, the opening of the uterus, thereby adding safety and reducing discomfort of the procedure.

This maneuver permits the accurate measurement of blood loss, which is usually minimal. However, heavy bleeding may occur in late abortion, and it is absolutely necessary to know accurately the volume of this bleeding in order to guide fluid or blood replacement if this should become necessary.*

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 06-29-2003 - 6:51pm
Yep, it clearly says elective abortions up until 26 weeks. That's too bad. Makes me rather sick.

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