new here! (long, though...sorry)

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2003
new here! (long, though...sorry)
69
Tue, 06-17-2003 - 3:12pm
So I've been reading on this board for a while now. First of all, I'm pro-choice all the way, not because i enjoy abortions or because i like knowing a potential life is terminated, but because I should have the right to choose what's best for my body and what isn't. I feel that once women lose the right to decide what to do when found pregnant, so many other rights will fall soon after. I, for one, do not want to live in a world where all my decisions are made for me.

And then there is the argument of killing an innocent child. I won't argue that a fetus is a life in progress, but not necessary a life. Starting to form organs or a heartbeat doesn't qualify as life to me. Life involved a thinking, feeling individual who can survive on its own. I see so many arguments asking "how can death be the best option rather than adoption?" well, in order to experience death one must experience life, which a fetus has not. It will not feel itself dying or feel sadness, it will just be prevented from further developement. A fetus has no sense of death say unlike a real child or a mother who has to choose between her life and that of a fetus.

And then there's the argument about god. I'm atheist, so those arguments hold no value to me. I don't mean to generalize here, but its been my experience that those who are pro-life by way of religious teachings are also very narrowminded when it comes to actual life. Anti-gay, anti-interracial, and a good many others. Its hard to take people seriously who will fight til the death concerning a fetus's "life" but condem others for living their own lives how they see fit. One thing i can't stand is hypocrites.

This is getting long,so i'll try and wrap things up here. I'm a realist and i do understand that death is a part of life. Not everything can have the chance for a full life. Sometimes death is fair and sometimes it isn't, sometimes its a choice and other times it isn't. I accept other people's choices as long as they face the consequences. Some people choose to have sex along with choosing to use as much protection as possible, and when that fails, they should have the choice to do what they want during the pregnancy. There shouldn't be a line drawn as to where choice ends. Believe me, abortion is not the easy way out, the mother will live with that her whole life. But I realize there are people out there who choose not to use protection and use abortion as a means of birth control. Luckily, that is not the majority. Many people abuse prescription drugs, does that mean the government should ban them all? No. There will always be extremes, but the choice should remain because there are people out there in emergencies and shouldn't be denied the treatment they seek.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-19-2003
Tue, 06-17-2003 - 3:37pm
"I feel that once women lose the right to decide what to do when found pregnant, so many other rights will fall soon after. I, for one, do not want to live in a world where all my decisions are made for me."

which rights are next to go? voting, driving, working? Just wondering...

"Life involved a thinking, feeling individual who can survive on its own."

So what about the born people who don't have the ability to think or survive on their own? Should we inject them to make sure they have no pain and kill them? It wouldn't actually have "life" by your terms.

. "I accept other people's choices as long as they face the consequences."

So how does a woman who gets pregnant and aborts her unborn child deal with the consequences? There are many women on this board alone that will tell you they have NO regret and have NEVER felt bad. What consequences do they deal with?

"Many people abuse prescription drugs, does that mean the government should ban them all? No. There will always be extremes, but the choice should remain because there are people out there in emergencies and shouldn't be denied the treatment they seek."

Not all PLers believe that abortion ahould be banned, but it should not be available just because a child is "unwanted". Not just anyone can go get a prescription and the same should apply, not just anyone can go get an abortion.



iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2003
Tue, 06-17-2003 - 5:26pm
which rights are next to go? voting, driving, working? Just wondering...

i didn't think you'd need me to name them off, but whatever. anything concerning your body that others might see as "wrong". Eating what you like, having sex, there are a number. think of all the groups out there fighting against one thing or another. some people are militant about having children and say people shouldn't be married unless they are planning on procreating. Many religious extremists are against premarital sex and i'm sure if they got there way no one would be having sex unless they were married. There's groups against birth control and who knows what else. all i'm saying is that as humans, all we can really control is our body and its pointless if people are going to start taking away that right.


So what about the born people who don't have the ability to think or survive on their own? Should we inject them to make sure they have no pain and kill them? It wouldn't actually have "life" by your terms.

you know what, many people leave that choice up to their loved ones. personally, if that happens to me, yeah, i think i'd rather be dead that be hooked up to some kind of machine to keep me going. once again, its all about personal choice with your own body and your own life.


So how does a woman who gets pregnant and aborts her unborn child deal with the consequences? There are many women on this board alone that will tell you they have NO regret and have NEVER felt bad. What consequences do they deal with?

and there are many women who had the hardest time of their life making that choice. everyone deals with it in their own way, regardless of if that information is available to you or not. denial is an interesting thing, but in most cases it was done for the greater good in the eyes of the mother.


Not all PLers believe that abortion ahould be banned, but it should not be available just because a child is "unwanted". Not just anyone can go get a prescription and the same should apply, not just anyone can go get an abortion.

in this world, if you want something bad enough chances are you'll find away to get your hands on it. i'm not saying that abortion should just be a free for all birth control. but accidents happen to good and careful people and its unfortunate that they'd have to change their world around to give birth. and its true, abortion has been around since the beginning of mankind in one form or another. does that make it right for everyone, no. but making it illegal would only make it more dangerous because it would be done by less qualified people in worse environments. keeping it legal gives people options and safety.


iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 12:30am
EXCELLENT post and welcome!!

June

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-11-2003
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 12:41am
I welcome you and good post too!

some of the rights women might lose involve medical and physical privacy rights. A pregnant woman, if abortion was illegal, would find herself in potentail trouble if she misscarried or trouble for not eating "right" or taking certain medications. What could happen is a frightening thing when considering the fetus first thinking.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 7:32am
"some of the rights that women might lose would involve medical and physical privacy rights. A pregnant woman,if abortion was illegal, would find herself in potential trouble if she miscarried or trouble for not eating "right" or taking certain medications. What could happen is a frightening thing when considering the fetus first thinking."

That's a mighty big could. I think it is a scare tactic used by PC to keep abortion legal. Prior to RvsW, women were not brought up on charges for miscarrying, nor were they brought up on charges for not eating right or taking certain medications. Furthermore it's not "fetus first" thinking it's "fetus too" thinking.~Lisa.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-15-2003
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 12:24pm
>> Believe me, abortion is not the easy way out, the mother will live with that her whole life. <<

I am well aware that this wasn't the main idea of your post, but still, it is an idea that baffles me. I have heard many pro-choice people say this. My question to you, and to all pro-choice advocates is, WHY is it not easy? In your mindset, you are not destroying a child. You are merely making a choice about your body. You are simply exercising your right as a free person. So why is it hard? Why is it something you will have to live with for the rest of your life? I think that deep down, a lot of PC people DO see it as what it really is; destroying a human life. THAT is why it is so hard for a lot of the women who choose abortion, for whatever reason they choose it. --->Dawn

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-15-2003
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 12:38pm
>>which rights are next to go? voting, driving, working? Just wondering...

i didn't think you'd need me to name them off, but whatever. anything concerning your body that others might see as "wrong". Eating what you like, having sex, there are a number.<<


There is a vast difference in choosing what you want to eat and choosing to destroy your child. There is no comparison there.

>>So what about the born people who don't have the ability to think or survive on their own? Should we inject them to make sure they have no pain and kill them? It wouldn't actually have "life" by your terms.

you know what, many people leave that choice up to their loved ones. personally, if that happens to me, yeah, i think i'd rather be dead that be hooked up to some kind of machine to keep me going. once again, its all about personal choice with your own body and your own life.<<


The difference here is that the person in that situaion is making the choice about their OWN death. Abortion takes that right away from the baby and gives it to the mother, with no consultation or respect for the baby's right to life.


>> i'm not saying that abortion should just be a free for all birth control. but accidents happen to good and careful people and its unfortunate that they'd have to change their world around to give birth.<<

I posted my opinion about this on another thread, but I'll repeat it here. This arguement, like many other PC arguements, all stem from the selfishness of the mother. --->Dawn

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2003
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 1:29pm
There is a vast difference in choosing what you want to eat and choosing to destroy your child. There is no comparison there.

it sure is a comparison. its about choice. now not everyone makes the choice to abort a pregnancy, but some have to. all i'm saying is that if we start allowing groups to influence our government enough to take away the choices we make about our own body, they're going to start trying to control a lot more than just pregnancy.



The difference here is that the person in that situaion is making the choice about their OWN death. Abortion takes that right away from the baby and gives it to the mother, with no consultation or respect for the baby's right to life.

a fetus is not a baby. in order to have rights, you must have life first. in that case, the mother's choices come first because she is the living individual, whereas the fetus could be a potential life, but not necessarily. many things can happen to a fetus, miscarriage and whatnot. there is no guarentee that the baby will form out of that fetus in the next nine months. until is it big enough and complete enough to live outside the womb (and yes, i think during the third trimester that is possible) it is just a part of the woman's body. that's is where the comparison comes in.



I posted my opinion about this on another thread, but I'll repeat it here. This arguement, like many other PC arguements, all stem from the selfishness of the mother. --->Dawn

ok, so you consider the mother selfish. i consider you selfish for trying to take away that mother's rights to do with her body as she pleases. she is the living being, she must bear the pregnancy and all the problems that come with it, she will live with her choices one way or another, not you. you do not get to choose for her. i'd say she deserves more rights than a tiny fetus. call it selfish if you want. i think its selfish of pro lifers to go around telling other people how to live their lives without spending a day in their shoes.


oh, someone posted earlier about how people can feel bad even though we don't consider it a life? i should have seen that one coming. first of all, there is a stigma attached to abortion, just as there is to a single mother. either way the woman is not going to be happy with herself because there are too many other people out there looking down on her for her choices. second of all, the loss of a potential life hurts even if it is the right decision for her. that argument only works if you find a pro abortion person and to tell you the truth, i don't know many. the fact is, abortion is a necessary evil and yes, most women who go through the procedure do feel bad. i can't give you all their reasons because i'm not them. and some don't feel bad at all. once again, i can't tell you why, but that's how the world works.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-19-2003
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 1:51pm
"it sure is a comparison. its about choice. now not everyone makes the choice to abort a pregnancy, but some have to. all i'm saying is that if we start allowing groups to influence our government enough to take away the choices we make about our own body, they're going to start trying to control a lot more than just pregnancy"


Keeping abortion legal COULD result in the government using it as population control by forcing women with too many kids to abort. Of course, this will never happen(hopefully)but my point is there will always be COULD or IF.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2003
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 2:07pm
Keeping abortion legal COULD result in the government using it as population control by forcing women with too many kids to abort. Of course, this will never happen(hopefully)but my point is there will always be COULD or IF.


That is a good point. But the existance of abortion itself is not a problem. Like I said, its about personal control of your own body. Abortion is just an option, not a mandatory process. Taking it away would mean destroying that personaly freedom. Using it as a tool of population control is also destroying personaly freedom. But allowing it to be legal as a safe option does no harm. For the record, if the government does one day decide to use abortion as a means of population control, i'd be against it because its taking away my right to make responsible choices for myself. That right there proves that I'm pro choice...not pro abortion. You won't find many people cheering on the use of abortion to limit the number of babies born.

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