Open discussion

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-22-2004
Open discussion
87
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 1:22pm

I hope to just have a calm discussion about abortion, the "fetus"/baby.
People call it a fetus not thinking that it is an alive human being. Even though Two weeks after conception the heart starts to beat. Eight weeks it closes his/her eyelids to light and sucks its thumb,swallow, frown etc. Why is this not considered a human life?

Has anyone seen an aborted fetus? Depending on how the procedure was done, some babies are born alive and are left to die. ( this is done with the saline injection method)

Do you know exactly what and how the abortion is done?

the most common is suction and if you look on the monitor you can see the baby squirming and trying to get away from the vacuum. Tearing it to peices.

Saline solution poisons the baby and burns the outside layer of its skin.

Other methods use instruments to tear and rip the baby/fetus apart.

In all these cases if one would see the fetus/baby it is squirming in pain etc.

If a baby/fetus can squirm try to get out of the way. Has a beating heart etc. why is it not considered a human being?

Maybe having an abortion for some people is just an easy way out a form of birth control. I SAID FOR SOME!!!

If people have had them once, could you not prevent it for the future so you would not have to have another one.

Isn't it safe to say that if you are having sex protected or not there is an opportunity for one to get pregnant. That is the risk one takes. If one is not willing to risk that then don't have sex or take the precautions that will gaurentee one not to get pregnant.

I don't believe in abortion, but this is my opinion and what is right for me.

I just don't understand on how or why the baby is a fetus.

 

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-07-2007
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 2:34pm

People call it a fetus because that is what it is. A baby is a born human infant. I have a 10 year old daughter. She is not a teenager, an adult or a senior citizen and will not be referred to as such. It has NOTHING to do with how people feel about pregnancy. It's simply fact.

Saline abortions are rarely used anymore and the majority of surgical abortions happen in the first trimester when there is no possibility of pain. So the notion of the fetus "squirming in pain" doesn't really apply

I have never heard anyone say a z/e/f isn't human or alive. What is subjective is the notion of personhood. One person's idea of when that occurs differs from another. What we DO know for fact is that the woman is a person, complete and sentient. She does have the right to define what happens within her own body.

"If one is not willing to risk that then don't have sex or take the precautions that will gaurentee one not to get pregnant."

That's a very simplistic take on a complex subject. Precautions fail.

No one is requiring you to believe in abortion. It is that your opinions apply to you and you alone.

T

*************************************************

"You're cute. I like you."

"What you se

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-22-2004
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 2:42pm
Thanks for your response. This is a very touchy subject and it is good that it can be discussed.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-07-2007
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 3:35pm

"I don't believe in abortion, but this is my opinion and what is right for me."

This is the most important part of all you posted. This is why I'm pro-choice. :)

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-10-2003
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 4:45pm

quote: People call it a fetus not thinking that it is an alive human being. Even though Two weeks after conception the heart starts to beat. Eight weeks it closes his/her eyelids to light and sucks its thumb,swallow, frown etc. Why is this not considered a human life?
end quote

because many regard it is a POTENTIAL human life. one that is in deveopment

quote: Has anyone seen an aborted fetus? Depending on how the procedure was done, some babies are born alive and are left to die. ( this is done with the saline injection method)
/end quote

in photographs, yes. have you seen the corpse of any women who died in childbirth? have you seen pictures of deliveries gone bad?

quote: Do you know exactly what and how the abortion is done?
/end quote

yes. many differnt methods, icluding d & c, suction, saline, d & e and intact d &e sometimes called d & x

quote: the most common is suction and if you look on the monitor you can see the baby squirming and trying to get away from the vacuum. Tearing it to peices.
/end quote

no. the most common is the suction d& c. and th3e embryo or fetus is not *trying* to do anything as the development needed to do such is not there yet

quote: Maybe having an abortion for some people is just an easy way out a form of birth control. I SAID FOR SOME!!!
/end quote

and even if it is, we do not restrict the rights of all for the idiocy of some. or should we test all potential parents for iq, income and insurance before permitting them to have children?

If people have had them once, could you not prevent it for the future so you would not have to have another one.

quote: Isn't it safe to say that if you are having sex protected or not there is an opportunity for one to get pregnant. That is the risk one takes. If one is not willing to risk that then don't have sex or take the precautions that will gaurentee one not to get pregnant.
/end quote

no birth control is 100%- even sterilization has a failure rate. many women are totally unwilling to abstain on a slim chance that their birth control fails, and are perfectly willing to accept abortion as one option in their array of choices.

quote: I don't believe in abortion, but this is my opinion and what is right for me.
/end quote

that's ok., i can respect that as long as you do not seek to impose that belief via laws on all other women

quote: I just don't understand on how or why the baby is a fetus.

it is a fetus from 9 wks gestation until it is born, just a medical fact.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-08-2007
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 5:21pm

I completely agree with you Chrishnia! It seems though that we are in the minority on this board being pro-life.

If you don't want to carry a baby full term if that's what happens, don't have sex!

Ella Grayce

Lilypie1st Birthday Ticker
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-06-2010
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 5:36pm

"If you don't want to carry a baby full term if that's what happens, don't have sex!"

Honestly, that is the weakest argument I have ever heard. I could also say to you if you don't want to risk being in a car accident don't drive. Or if you don't want to risk slipping and falling and breaking many bones in your body never go outside in the snow or rain, in fact never go outside at all because you might get hurt. There are risks for everything we do!

Do you think pregnant people should remain inside for 9 months? They could get into an accident or fall and hurt the baby, or maybe do something else that hurts the baby.

As a child free women I am not going to abstain from sex with my husband for the rest of my life because I could get pregnant. I use BC to prevent that but if it happens to have I will have an abortion. That is my right as a free citizen to decide what happens to my body.

If YOU do not want a pregnancy or a child you are more than welcome to NEVER have sex with your husband/SO but sorry I am going to have sex with mine.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-18-2006
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 6:14pm

<<<>>>
You mean the tube that will become the heart starts to pulsate??

<<<>>>
Yes, I saw my daughter after my abortion

<<<>>>
Saline abortions are rare, and there is a act that was passed by bush in 2002 called teh born alive infant protection act with helps to prevent this.

<<<>>>
Yeap, i can explain to you in detail how mine was done.

<<<<>>>
If you are talking about the movie the silent scream, that was made many years ago by a prolife group to scare women. If you put a noodle in a bowl of water and started poking around in the bowl of water the noodle would move to. The fetus is not running away it is moving due to the fluid moving

<<<<>>>
Again saline abortions are very rare and usually done for women who are pregnant with a sick baby. It is done in a way to keep the fetus/baby intact so the mother can hold her child, take picture, get foot prints and so on. Also i have seen pics of my friends daughter who was aborted this way(she was 26weeks pregnant and the baby had monosomy of the X chromosome and a heart problem) and she looks fine.

<<>>>
Almost all D&E's are done before the fetus can feel pain and the ones that are done later the fetus almost always has pain meds from the mothers blood stream.

<<<<>>>
This is untrue because almost all abortions are done before the fetus can feel pain.

<<<>>
Again the fetus doesnt ahve the know how to "squirm away" during the time in which most abortions are proformed.

<<<<>>>>
And for some it is the hardest/most painful choice they will ever make...

<<<>>>
I can take my birth control and prevent pregnancy to the best of my ability but i can not make my birth control 100% effective or prevent my child from having a disease or a chromosome problem and i can not control my health

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-10-2003
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 8:17pm

quote: If you don't want to carry a baby full term if that's what happens, don't have sex!
/end quote

how bout: if you don't like abortion, don't have one.
but don't cocern yourself with the reproductive organs of anyone outside yourself-

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Mon, 04-30-2007 - 8:32am

>>I hope to just have a calm discussion about abortion, the "fetus"/baby.
People call it a fetus not thinking that it is an alive human being. Even though Two weeks after conception the heart starts to beat. <<

I only read your first paragraph and no other posts. These are my immediate thoughts: You claim you want a "calm" discussion then you put fetus (the accurate medical term) in quotes. Then you accuse all people who use the word fetus of having a similar belief, that it's not an "alive human being". Then you provide misinformation that the heartbeats two weeks after conception.

I'm not convinced that you are interested in a reasonable discussion.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-29-2005
Mon, 04-30-2007 - 2:16pm

But yet it's said many times by PCers here with regard to men. If you don't want to be a father, don't have sex. Funny how that works.

Are free citizens allowed to sell parts of their body if they choose? Are they allowed to sell their body for sex if they choose? Are free citizens allowed to inject harmful drugs into their body? It's their body, why can't they decide what happens to it?

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