PL extremists

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2003
PL extremists
49
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 1:46pm
These are the people I absolutely hate. Last year was my first year away at college and at one point during the spring semester a PL group came to my campus. And these weren't the usual preachers that we get on occasion, they had a whole display of pictures ten feet high all around the center of campus. Of course, they had their "warning" signs up saying warning, genocide photos ahead. Not that it did any good of course because i wasn't about to walk ten minutes out of my way to avoid them. Anyways, they had plenty of pictures depicting aborted fetuses, i find it interesting that they claim these were unwanted pregnancies. I don't know too many doctors that photograph the fetus after every procedure performed. But the part that really upset me was that they compared abortion to genocide. first of all, perhaps they needed a dictionary because genocide is the extermination of a people (race, religion, etc.) second, they had pictures of holocaust victims, lynched african americans, along with many others. I wasn't offended because of the abortion aspect, I was offended because this shows no sympathy for students who might have had relatives that died in those camps or because of their skin color. It's sad that they resorted to comparing a fetus to a group of human beings that suffered mercilessly. Fetuses don't suffer, they merely cease to exist. They went too far in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, i'm all about free speech and I wasn't hoping to have them censored in anyway. But i do think it is pathetic and cheap to compare an aborted fetus no bigger than a nickel to hundreds of thousands of individuals killed out of hatred and ignorance. I lost my respect for the extremist Pro Life arguement real fast that day.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
In reply to: mercury1973
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 3:22pm
I do think the amount of abortions that occur in a year amounts to genocide. It is the destruction of human beings - in the fetal stage, but still human beings - in huge numbers.

"But i do think it is pathetic and cheap to compare an aborted fetus no bigger than a nickel to hundreds of thousands of individuals killed out of hatred and ignorance."

I don't. I don't think the size of a fetus matters - I think it has the equal right to live as all of the hundreds of thousands of individuals you refer to here.

That said, I wouldn't join that protest group. It's a useless attempt to shock and scare people with what is clearly propanda. Becuase an abortion or the products thereof is unpleasant to look at, that isn't what makes it bad. I'm sure my life-saving surgery was pretty nasty to watch too, and that certainly wasn't bad.

"I lost my respect for the extremist Pro Life arguement real fast that day"

For the argument or for the extremists themselves? I'm not sure what the "extremist argument is," in your opinion. I guess my argument, that abortion should only be legal to save a woman's life, would be considered extremist. That doesn't mean I support holding up 10 foot posters of aborted fetuses. That's a REAL small percentage of PLers as a whole who would do that.

-Deb

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-15-2003
In reply to: mercury1973
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 3:23pm
What about those of us who choose to voice our opinions without infringing on the rights of others? I have never, and will never, picket an abortion clinic. I will, however, state my opinion that a fetus has the right to live, no matter how inconvenient it would be for the mother, till I can state it no more.

Abortion is selfishness on the part of the mother. Nothing more, and nothing less. If the child is not meant to live, it will not live. It is not our right to destroy a child. NEVER, is it ANYONE'S right to destroy the life of a child. A fetus is a child. Just because it is not finished growing and developing yet does not make it a nonentity. A child at age 5 is still not finished growing or developing. He is still a child. He is still a life. So is a fetus, and a fetus deserves our protection. A fetus is not the mother's "property", any more than her 5 year old would be. THAT is how I look at it, and how I always will. --->Dawn

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-11-2003
In reply to: mercury1973
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 3:25pm
I ahve contacted ia email several PL groups that I consider extremist. In merely asking for more information about their point of view I was immediatly branded as the enemy because I idn't immediatly jump to their point of view. I dared to ask questions which apparently made me "one of satan's" acording to the one guy. I ahve a hard time with anyone who is PL who is fighting to see abortion made illegal because of any reason ahving to do with their religion. It is wrong to force your religious views on others. It is wrong to want to take away women's reproductive rights. it is wrong to brand them as murderers, sluts, irresposible......wrong. it is wrong to bomb clinics. it is wrong to show graffic pictures in locations in which young children might see them. they do that in my town. there is a yearly rally for PL and they line up on the main street in town and hold up posters and pictures of fetus's and graphic abortion pictures with no reguard to the young children around them. It makes me ill.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-19-2003
In reply to: mercury1973
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 3:40pm
"...hold up posters and pictures of fetus's and graphic abortion pictures with no reguard to the young children around them. It makes me ill."

I'm not saying it is ok to picket an abortion clinic, but if there is a rally on Main St. for PL and you don't agree with that, why would you take your children? Does it make you ill that children would see these because even they would recognize these are babies that have been slaughtered? Then you might have to explain why it is that women have the right to do this to their own child and you support it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2003
In reply to: mercury1973
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 3:41pm
"What about those of us who choose to voice our opinions without infringing on the rights of others? I have never, and will never, picket an abortion clinic. I will, however, state my opinion that a fetus has the right to live, no matter how inconvenient it would be for the mother, till I can state it no more."

what about you?? my post is just about those extremists. besides, i didn't say they were infringing on my rights. free speech is free speech. i just think it was disgusting and very unsympathetic to those who had relatives in those positions.



"Abortion is selfishness on the part of the mother. Nothing more, and nothing less. If the child is not meant to live, it will not live."

what about a child that was molested? was that meant to happen to? the way you're talking it sounds that you think fate or god or whatever controls every single aspect of life. that's sad that some sort of higher power can control all and allows pedophiles, rapists, and other bad people to exist. then there might as well be no laws or punishments because what happens was obviously meant to according to you.



iVillage Member
Registered: 04-15-2003
In reply to: mercury1973
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 3:56pm
I am talking about a child who has never had a voice. I am taking about a child that some women, for reasons beyond me, feel it is ok to kill because they aren't ready for a baby. As far as what I meant by "meant to happen", it has nothing to do with God. I mean, if a child is conceived with an irreversible deformaty or disorder that will keep them from living outside the womb, they will not live. But the mother shouldn't have the right to make the decision to kill the child. --->Dawn
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2003
In reply to: mercury1973
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 4:07pm
but somehow you have the right to tell other people how to live their lives and control their bodies? ok, so its your opinion that a fetus is a child therefore you'd never kill one. good for you, don't ever have an abortion. but others feel that it isn't a living being until a certain amount of development has taken place. no one will win that arguement. but you can do what's right you, no one is stopping you. but let everyone one do what's right for them and their own bodies.
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-09-2003
In reply to: mercury1973
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 4:46pm
Please quit repeating the rhetoric and write something of substance. The "my right to do whatever I want with my body" is trite and untrue unless you take into account the cosequences of those actions. You may morally feel it is justified to murder someone (spouse, etc.)who has betrayed you- but we, as a society don't and you would pay for that action. You may morally feel it's alright to use your body in prostitution, but society doesn't (unless you're in Nevada and even then it's carefully controlled) and you would pay those consequences. We are not allowed to put illegal drugs into our body without possibly facing the judicial system. So stop with the "my body" etc. because for you to say that to me sounds the same as "if you don't like murder/prostitution/drugs- don't commit it/use them!" In fact, I wasn't allowed to deliver my child via c-section unless it was medically necessary, but I could have had an abortion - so, we really don't have complete control over everything!

This was stated in a previous thread and I liked how she put it, that"we as a society have a duty to oppose injustice when we see it, to speak for those that cannot speak for themselves." It wasn't long ago that someone could easily have said "my child- my choice" in defense of child abuse, neglect, and infanticide (sadly it's still true in some countries). Or my wife- my choice to justify spousal abuse and murder. I hope that these instances would be offensive to you in the same way killing the unborn is offensive to me. I do not condone what PL extremists do, but if a pl person had not told me about Partial-birth abortions, I wouldn't have believed they were occurring. This was NOT what Roe v. Wade intended, and I feel the law has been used in an abusive and despicable manner. I Have the RIGHT to speak out about injustice as I see it, will you afford me MY RIGHTS!?!

Danelle

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-11-2003
In reply to: mercury1973
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 5:42pm
if you have business at town hall, the courthouse, the post office or anyplace else in town you ahve no choice but to go by it.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
In reply to: mercury1973
Wed, 06-18-2003 - 5:56pm
"ok, so its your opinion that a fetus is a child therefore you'd never kill one. good for you, don't ever have an abortion. but others feel that it isn't a living being until a certain amount of development has taken place"

It's either a living being with rights or it isn't - just because there is not a consensus does not mean that there is no right answer. Since I believe ALL fetuses are living beings wtih rights - including yours, for example - I feel it's wrong for ANY fetus to be killed. Just as I feel it's wrong for ANY person - not just me - to be the victim of a crime. As far as never winning that argument, then what is the point of debating if that's how you feel???

"but somehow you have the right to tell other people how to live their lives and control their bodies?"

Oh how I HATE that argument. When will PCers understand that PLers don't believe a fetus is part of your body at all? To us, it's not YOUR body, it's TWO bodies. One of which cannot speak for or save itself. And again... we tell people how to live their lives every single day, in order to prevent the rights of others from being taken away. They're called laws. Telling people how to live their lives is not a new or outlandish concept.

-Deb

 

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