Sanger - racist and eugenisist

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-11-2008
Sanger - racist and eugenisist
78
Sun, 02-03-2008 - 11:06pm

Interesting read from the mother of PP.ague


http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/~rauch/abortion_eugenics/sanger/


http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~rauch/abortion_eugenics/star-tribune_eugenics.html


Sure, she was pro woman - as long as you were the 'right' kind of woman.

 "Pascal's Wager," which states that believing in God costs you nothing if you're wrong, and wins you everything if you're right.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-08-2007
Mon, 02-04-2008 - 4:03pm

"Yes, I am for federal money paying for abortion,"


Would you support tax dollars going to subsidize other elective procedures as well?

Ella Grayce

Lilypie1st Birthday Ticker
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2007
Mon, 02-04-2008 - 4:19pm

"Would you support tax dollars going to subsidize other elective procedures as well? Like lasik eye surgery or plastic surgeries?"

That depends on your definition of "elective." I support the doctors' ability to make the decision of whether or not to perform a procedure. For example- breast implants because the woman just doesn't feel big enough? I wouldn't be big on that. Breast implants because the woman had to have a radical mastectomy? I would support that.

You've got me on this one- I'm pro-choice because I'm lazy. I believe that there are an infinite number of scenarios to consider when it comes to needing government dollars to pay for abortion, plastic surgery, and vision improvement procedures. That's why I prefer to put the decisions in the hands of the doctors instead of my own. I just don't have the time to maintain a strong opinion on what should be done in every single scenario, ad infinitum.




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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-03-2007
Mon, 02-04-2008 - 4:22pm

From your first link: "If you are 40 and had a monopolar tubal coagulation, you do not want to be quoted the success rate for 23 year olds with tubal ligation by Hulka clips."

The only way to get reversal rates that high is by using sterilization surgeries that are less good for the woman in the first place, they use bigger incisions and carry more danger of side effects and offer a less certain sterilization. THe more modern the sterilization method, the less amenable to reversal.

I can hardly support recommending a more dangerous, less effective method to all women, so that the 1-2% who aim for reversal can increase their likelihood of success from 20 to 70%.

Re: insurance - the VA is the closest program we have to single-payer care. Medicaid changes too much from state to state and year to year, and therefore suffers hugely from the administrative parasite needed to keep up with the crazy legislation. The VA is the most efficient and effective healthcare program in the US, they regularly beat private healthcare on measures of not mixing up medications and other critical patient safety things like that.
If we actually could work in economies of scale and have a system that was transparent and understandable, instead of sucking up 30% of the healthcare dollars just to figure out where its own tail is... we could have a lot more healthcare being available to sick people instead of running around in circles.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-08-2007
Mon, 02-04-2008 - 4:26pm

"That depends on your definition of "elective." I support the doctors' ability to make the decision of whether or not to perform a procedure. For example- breast implants because the woman just doesn't feel big enough? I wouldn't be big on that. Breast implants because the woman had to have a radical mastectomy? I would support that."


Shouldn't it be the same for abortion then?

Ella Grayce

Lilypie1st Birthday Ticker
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2007
Mon, 02-04-2008 - 4:31pm

"Shouldn't it be the same for abortion then? For example "I need an abortion because I was sleeping with multiple guys and don't know the father" would be a no. and "I need an abortion because the man is abusive and I'm going to leave him" would be a yes. Do you believe a doctor should listening to the reasoning and decide if it's truly a needed abortion or an elective one?"

Hard to say. It's a lot easier to prove that a woman needs an implant because she had a radical mastectomy than it is to prove that a woman got pregnant while in an abusive relationship. You know how they say that the prisons are full of innocent people, right?

"I agree but it's all or nothing. All for abortions. Nothing for other elective procedures."

I'm not totally up on federal health care policies, so forgive my ignorance: are you saying that the federal government requires that state medicaid programs cover all abortions, even the ones that are currently banned by the federal government? What do you mean by "all for abortions"?




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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-15-2006
Mon, 02-04-2008 - 4:33pm

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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-15-2005
Mon, 02-04-2008 - 4:48pm

This keeps bringing to mind a Maury Povich or some such talk show...I was home sick one day, some show had women with multiple children, multiple baby daddys and they were doing paternity testing.


Someone asked one woman on something like child #6, why didn't she have an abortion.


Her response was "it's against my religion".


Okay...I was yelling at the tV "what religion says it's ok sleeping with whatever drops his drawers, having babies with men you can't identify -


iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2005
Mon, 02-04-2008 - 4:52pm

"Taking advantage of it???? Hmmm, I am a bit blown away by the caps and the insinuation here"


Well, the caps were simply an emphasis on me asking if it was a mandatory thing put in place for adopted children. I mean, all I'm asking is whether or not it is something that a person is able to opt out of or not... And, just because someone takes advantage of something that is there- when using it as it was designed to be use- isn't necessarily a bad thing. Why you think I'm insinuating otherwise is beyond me. I take advantage of STAFFORD loans for school... My husband takes advantage of the Group Health Care plans at work, so that we don't have to shell out a lot more money for privatized insurance on our own... I also take advantage of my 15% discount at work.


"In winter of 2003 my husband and I recieved a phone call from a family friend who knew of a girl who was addicted to drugs and in an abusive relationship who had recently lost her children to the state.


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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-15-2006
Mon, 02-04-2008 - 4:54pm

"It wouldn't amaze me if there was someone out there whose religion was anti-contraception but ok with abortion. "


Well, one thing I've learned from the religion debate is never make assumptions about what other people believe.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-10-2003
Mon, 02-04-2008 - 4:54pm

The military pays for boob jobs. Elective boob jobs.

As for abortion, I think you could squeeze that one in on the basis that it carried far less risk and expense than prenatal care and delivery. Not to mention medical care for the child that is born. Yeah- I'll spring for the abortions ;-)


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