Televised Abortions

Avatar for tykwondosha
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Televised Abortions
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Fri, 11-07-2003 - 12:31pm
Why don't they show abortions on Discovery Health Channel? It's just a surgical procedure involving the removal of unwanted tissue. They show plastic surgery, birth, heart surgery, etc. What's the diff?

Why don't they have commercials for abortion clinics? They only mention "termination of pregnancy" in passing on women's clinic commercials. Why don't they have like sales and stuff. Everybody I know who's had one wanted to get the best deal possible. It ought to be advertised.

Will there ever be restrictions placed on abortion to limit women for having them for ridiculous reasons, such as wanting a certain sex (I've seen it happen....more than once); and in the event of better genetic testing, wanting a certain hair color, eye color, or other genetic make-up?

Why do some PL people include the baby's father in the discussion of what will happen to the baby after it's born? Isn't it a little jaded to assume that these kids fathers want them to be born? Some may, but most don't. If and when the kid is born, they have a tendency to disappear. This coming from the POV of a young single mother of two living two minutes outside a major city. Maybe it's different in Wisconsin or somewhere.

Why do men assume that if they get their chick pg that abortion will be an option? Why do men see killing their unborn child as simply a more expensive form of birth control?

Why do some PC people refuse to recognize that the legalization of abortion did not free us as women? Why don't they see the statement above happening right in front of their faces? Why don't they understand that by indoctrinating men with the ideology that it's not a real baby and that abortion is simple and necessary, they made men less likely to be discerning when choosing sexual partners and choosing to wear condoms?

Why do PC people in support of keeping intact d+x legal refuse to believe that it is an unecessary procedure? Why don't they see the horror of having a live baby kicking and grasping the "doctor's" hands as he sticks the scissors into the baby's skull? That, to me, is infanticide and should be punishable by death. No I am not saying the doctor's should be shot, but they should be tried, sentenced, and hanged/gassed/whatever.

Why does the left paint the right as a bunch of racist, backwards, idiots? Why do people assume that because I'm black I support the genocide of my people in clinics that prey on my sisters?

Why is somebody going to respond to this by attacking my intelligence and trying to change the subject?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Fri, 11-07-2003 - 1:35pm
I rather liked your post and thinking.

If abortion were televised, the LEFT and PC would loose so many supporters that it would be AMAZING! IMHO!!! If every woman who went in to abort was mandated to view the exact same proceedure of abortion that they were going to have, many, if not most, would walk out of the clinic and never look back. Why do you think that it is not televised or shown as to educate? Because the truth would cost PC members and support. JMHO!

A.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Fri, 11-07-2003 - 1:54pm

Welcome to the board~


<<Why don't they show abortions on Discovery Health Channel? It's just a surgical procedure involving the removal of unwanted tissue. They show plastic surgery, birth, heart surgery, etc. What's the diff? >>


My guess is that it wouldn't make money. That is what programming all comes down to.


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Commericals- my guess is that poeple would object, write the networks, etc. Sales- Insurance, Medicaid & the price is quite low in a clinic cituation compared to what you'd pay yoru OB to have one done in the hospital. They are already inexpensive.


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I don't know. Those are good questions. With the rapid advance in technology, it seesm a subject that should be addressed.


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I don't know. I'm not a man & abortion has been around for centuries. Ask men.


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That would be due to the fact that my perception of the impact of safe & legal abortion is quite add odds with your statement above. I want choice for all women. Men need to be brought up by their parents to repsect women. If that is not happening at home, lack of safe, legal abortion is not going to make them more repsectful or careful. Why do women have sex with men who refuse to wear condoms?


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I don't stereotype by right/left. I have many conservative views, and some liberal. I refuse to BE pidgeonholed. If I DO revert to a stereotype, it is that of PLers being very conservative, religious folks. Sorry.


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Sorry- I never even knew you were black- and I would expect that black people have all kinds of different opinions wrt abortion. Don't they?


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I don't know. Let's see what happens.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Fri, 11-07-2003 - 3:00pm
Strictly on principle and to be fair, I think that if they show other major surgeries on TV (open heart surgery, transplants, anything that requires opening up the body cavity), then by rights they ought to show abortion too. And I'm PC. People have a right to know what actually happens, and it's less likely that antiabortion groups could "hoax" a real-time video being performed on a live patient to make it look more grisly than it is or make the fetus look more developed than it would be at that point. I'm all for freedom of information - even if it's ugly. If that were to change my mind, so be it. But I don't think it would, since my PC stance is not based around the idea that abortion is a "benign surgery" or the mere "removal of unwanted tissue," but that safe legal abortion is necessary because women who want abortions will seek them out anyway. I have no illusions about abortion being a pleasant thing. What it is, is just plain not my business unless it's my uterus. I can't and won't make moral decisions for other adult women.

That said, I can't even watch a needle being stuck in someone's arm so I'd probably have to be sedated to watch an abortion video.

Abortion is a complicated issue, and the rise of gender-selective abortion due to the advent of ultrasound technology in cultures where males are traditionally valued more than females is a horror. But again, it's just replacing female infanticide in a lot of cases, which IMHO is a whole lot worse.

>>Why don't they understand that by indoctrinating men with the ideology that it's not a real baby and that abortion is simple and necessary, they made men less likely to be discerning when choosing sexual partners and choosing to wear condoms?>>

If legal abortion were NOT available, it would not necessarily increase men's desire to marry the mothers of their children. All it would do is enable the women to file for paternity,which is not ensuring the man's commitment to that child (or that woman) at all. The only thing that will increase men's desire to marry, is what kind of male-female relationships he sees around him both as a boy and as a man. If he comes from a home or community where there is a happy, respectful marriage, or at least is exposed to such relationships in the case that he has a single parent, he has a good chance of forming a respectful relationship with a woman in the future. Or at the very least if he knows someone in his life who is not teaching him that women are "hoes," are liars, will trap him, exist for his sexual pleasure, are weaker than he and not to be listened to, and yet still are manipulative "bitches" with all the power (despite the inherent contradiction of them being weaker and inferior, yet manipulative and powerful at the same time).

The thought that a man would choose not to wear a condom with a new or casual sex partner because he knows she can "get an abortion later" is nauseating. He's taking his own life into his hands in that situation, since he's not protected against diseases. In cases of a woman who may be lying about being on birth control or being sterile and using unprotected sex to "trap" the man into child support (this seems heinous on the woman's part, not to mention time, money and energy- depleting for her), the man can protect himself by insisting on a condom.

I don't deny that there are women who abuse the right to legal abortion and men who pressure women into abortions. But I don't think the right ought to be taken away from everyone because of the abusers. Again, I may not personally approve of the reason any given woman aborts.

You can't always know the reasons behind abortions. Married couples sometimes decide to have abortions too, I know at least one married couple who has. This is not a decision most people enter into blithely.

I can't speak to the experience of being a black woman and looking at abortion through your eyes. I can say that, as a woman of Latino heritage, I've seen way too many women with huge families they can't care for, for no other reason than because their husband demands it and because they think it's mandated by God. I wish they would consider finding other loving homes for some of these children - I know they do not believe in abortion and thus would never advise them to get one.

>>Why is somebody going to respond to this by attacking my intelligence and trying to change the subject?>>

Has somebody done that yet?? I didn't see any posts to that effect so far, though it's clear by your tone that you're looking for a fight.

Avatar for tykwondosha
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 11-07-2003 - 3:31pm
Okay, let's see. First off, cute kids. Now about the abortions being inexpensive. I am a member of what you might call the "working poor". I and people like myself that I associate with, work every day, have health insurance, and still can't afford to go to the doctor b/c of the co-pays and medicine costs. To us, a few hundred dollars for an abortion is nowhere near attainable b/c we never have that much money at one time. A friend's neice recently had one and her's ended up costing her mother in total, around $1200.

About race. I don't really have to deal with people's assumptions about my race on the net concerning my heritage. I have a couple of times, but those were people I pissed off and so they decided to stereotype me based on that. I really am referring to the political climate in this country. Any time a black person in a position of power voices a conservative view on abortion (or affir. act., gay rights, etc.)the black political elite challenges that person's blackness and commitment to his/her people. I'm tired of seeing on the news about what good lapdogs my people are to the Democratic Party. Why aren't white conservatives castigated on the grounds that they don't support the "irish agenda" or the "slavic agenda"? Dumb question b/c I already know the answer. But still, it gets lonely being a conservative young black woman and constantly hearing that you are an anomaly, traitor to the race, and an Oreo, etc.when you turn on the radio or television.

When it comes to legalized abortion causing more harm than good in the area of men's respect for the act of conception, I still feel I'm right on the money with that one. Prior to the "the decision" young people had more trepidation about having unprotected sex and possibly conceiving a child. With abortion, the pill, and the so-called liberation/feminist movement thing and the explosion of the drug culture in the 70's followed by the me culture of 80's, it became nothing but a thang. You want to do it? Ok, here's a rubber. You slipped up and knocked somebody up? It's cool, go to the clinic and get it taken care of. It's actually bigger than abortion, I really can't say there is just one catalyst that changed the moral climate of our country for the worst. I can say that I feel abortion contributed in a BIG way.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 11-07-2003 - 3:50pm

Not just to you A., to everyone who has responded to this question.

Avatar for tykwondosha
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 11-07-2003 - 4:40pm
No, I'm not looking for a fight. But I have found that the way in which I phrase my ideas and questions makes people mad sometimes. I also have found that my intelligence is attacked pretty regularly when it comes to this particular issue. I think it may be because I don't mince words and I do feel (however arrogant this is) that I'm right about a lot of things and that there is no middle ground. Some people take that to mean I don't respect their views on the issue. They would be right, but that doesn't mean I think they are stupid or less than intelligent or whatever, or don't have a right to voice their opinions and try to convert me. Plus, I was feeling literary, and I liked the way that little comment fit into my litany.

"The thought that a man would choose not to wear a condom with a new or casual sex partner because he knows she can "get an abortion later" is nauseating."

But it happens soooooo often. Every guy I have ever slept with tried to get over with that. It did work sometimes, I have a 3 year-old because of it. But the mindset of men who are in relationships with these women are not that different from those of the casual sex partners. Just because a man is "with" a woman does not mean he is not going to expect her to get an abortion if she gets pregnant. How do I know? That's the culture I live in.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-09-2003
Fri, 11-07-2003 - 5:02pm
FWIW, I agree with many of your points. I'm white so I can't delve into the race issue, but I get a lot of people questioning me as to why why an intelligent, firm believer in women's rights doesn't support abortion, let alone embrace it as everyone around me does. I also feel that legalizing abortion has done women a disservice. Women (in general- but especially the young) are led to believe that abortion is the only option if they are in less than favorable circumstances, and with the influence of the father and families- they really don't have a "choice" so to speak.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 11-07-2003 - 5:27pm
I saw an abortion on tv in the 70's right after r v w...it didn't show much...just the woman's legs in the stirrups and the "pregnancy matter" going through the tube into this clear bucket...it was pretty gross...they really downplayed it, but back then we were all led to believe that an abortion wasn't more than terminating a lump of tissue.

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Fri, 11-07-2003 - 5:33pm
I think that the reality of seeing one inprogress, not neccissarily on tv, but prior to having one would be a vital educational tool. Don't you believe the reality of what this choice means should be given to the mother so as she can make an informed decision? Do you think that if there were a camera and the pregnant mother could view the unborn prior to the actual abortion that most women would go through with it? Do you think that a woman viewing the remains of the aborted prior to having her own abortion performed might have an effect on her going through with it? I do. I think that it is important that these women have ALL the facts and can see for themselves what it is that they are choosing to do.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 11-07-2003 - 6:13pm

But we CAN see all those - all you need is an internet connection and the ability to type - and if you don't have the connection, there is a library in every town that does.

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