Forgive me if it's been posted before, but are there any on here that anyone disagrees with?
I'm very sorry to do this to you Publius, as your posts are intriguing, but I must withdraw from the debate. Simply put, my baby is letting me sleep about 5 hrs a night at present and I just don't have the available brain matter to go into this as deeply as I would like.
I imagine we would have just agreed to disagree eventually anyway ;o)
So you believe that forced childbearing is morally acceptable, because of the result of an infant that would not exist otherwise.
Do you also believe the same about forced organ donation from parent to born child?
<<...you believe that they are only potential persons "until birth" or the acquisition of "consciousness", whereas I believe that they are human beings like you and me, from conception on.>>
Yes, this one concept is going to be at the heart of our disagreement over the entire issue and I believe it is the main thing that separates a lot of people on the issue of abortion.
Becoming pregnant with my son made me even more pro-choice than before. I had several sonograms because my cervix needed monitoring. I saw with wonder that he was sucking his thumb, wiggling around and was such a joy. I also made sure that I avoided the foods I was supposed to avoid, ate the foods I was supposed to eat, stayed off my feet and took off work when I was too ill or exhuasted.
Childbearing is far, far too important a life event to force on someone. It involves a woman's heart, soul, body, mind - and more. Forcing it on her when she is not ready or willing is defiling that. If someone is not ready or willing to do what a healthy pregnancy and birth may demand of her, then she should absolutely not do it.
I have a wonderful marriage - and I respect what work marriage is now that I'm married. I would never support forcing or coercing someone into marrying before they are ready precisely because I respect marriage. It's the same with childbearing.
I don't think that the ends justifies the means in the case of forced childbirth. I don't think that the possibility of an infant being born justifies forcing a woman to remain unwillingly pregnant, and thus justify forcing any hardship short of death upon her.
Consent removed from lovemaking twists it from a willing, loving gift to an abuse, an abomination - even if an infant results from it. It's the same with childbearing - remove consent, and you twist it into something it should never be. Not if you respect childbearing.
To that end - you cannot logically grant equal rights to two entities over one body - in this case, the woman's.
Only one can have final say.
Does the woman have the right to determine if she remains pregnant and gives birth or not?
And if you grant rights to bodily use to fetuses or born persons that supercede the rights of bodily soverignty, then what are the implications for parents of born children with regard to the bodily responsibilty that they bear? Wouldn't a birth mother be required to always be available for bodily use by her child that she relinquished? If not, why would that child's rights change after birth?
Fetuses have never been granted personhood that overruled the personhood rights of the woman. If legislation was to do that, there would be a whole host of other personhood issues that would have to be re-addressed.
Welcome back :)
Please address this:
Sounds like convenient "reasoning" to compel women to gestate unwanted pregnancies, but to give men a free pass from the use of their bodies for organ donation.
Are you opposed to hormonal birth control and IUD's?
I understand, and hope that you can get some additional rest soon. Our youngest doesn't sleep as well as our other three did, so I understand what you're going through.