Ways to reduce abortion?

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-11-2008
Ways to reduce abortion?
111
Sun, 01-13-2008 - 11:08pm

I know PL are working to reduce abortion, limit abortion and end abortion.

 "Pascal's Wager," which states that believing in God costs you nothing if you're wrong, and wins you everything if you're right.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-07-2007
Tue, 01-15-2008 - 1:48pm

I didn't say you questioned my faith.

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"You're cute. I like you."

"What you se

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-10-2003
Tue, 01-15-2008 - 1:52pm

<< But I cannot see fit to terminate human life over money or circumstances that one may be born to. >>

And I'd never mandate a woman to have an abortion. But removing the carrot on the stick may eventually produce a population less willing to have children for which they are unable to provide without tax dollars. How many women are going to continue to get pregnant with kids they can't afford and who areremoved from their home, with parental rights terminated and those kids adopted out? I think word would spread quick and they'd smarten up. IF they wanted tax money to help them it would only come in the form of paying for their abortion or those kids would be removed upon birth.
There could be a slight increase in abortion at first- but I have confidence that eventually these types of women would rather use birth control. And if not? Abortion in those cases doesn't really phase me. I'd a totally different mindset that we have about embryos and pre-viable fetuses. In any case, in the above circumstances, the children born would not be left to languish in crappy circumstances and there would be helluva lot more incentive for those on the dole to get their act together and contribute to society.

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I hear ya! Self-employment taxes has its charms as well.


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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2007
Tue, 01-15-2008 - 2:06pm

"I don't like war - but I accept the fact that our soldiers are their. Let them know that you, personally, don't like the war, therefore you will take the money used to defend their lives by way of armor, bullets, food, medical care, etc. away from them in order to make your point. You can be again the war, but that is truly sad that you would cause harm to our soldiers."

Give me a break. It was this kind of intimidation and fearmongering that led so many Democrats in Congress to support the war in the first place. If you don't support the war, the Bush administration said, you're not supporting the troops. And if you don't support the troops, you're un-American. And if you're un-American, it's only a matter of time before we remove you to an outside territory where we can hold you without due process and torture you as we see fit.

I fought us needing funding in Iraq the same way I fought the need for abortion- by arguing we never should have needed it in the first place. If Congress had never agreed to go to war in the first place, there would be no need to fund it. As it is, according to your argument, we should be there for the rest of eternity because we can't vote to remove the troops (that makes us un-American cut-and-runners) so we have to continue funding them ad infinitum to the ends of the universe (so we don't get called un-American).

This line of argumentation is so problematic I don't even know where to start. You cannot have it both ways. You can't decide how government funding should be used but deny everyone else the ability to do so. It's hypocritical. You say that people who do not want to fund the war in Iraq have one choice- vote. So do you. If you deny them other choices (protesting, arguing, etc), you deny yourself the same. IOW, if you're telling them they can't argue against funding war, you can't argue against funding abortion either.




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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-11-2008
Tue, 01-15-2008 - 4:25pm
Taxes, Taxes and MORE Taxes.

 "Pascal's Wager," which states that believing in God costs you nothing if you're wrong, and wins you everything if you're right.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-10-2003
Tue, 01-15-2008 - 4:33pm

Actually, when a pagan/Wiccan won the big lottery back in October, our local anchor people had a field day with their little jibes about him flying around on a new broomstick and such.
Not a ruffled feather that I heard about- and believe me- I kept an ear open.

It was just last year that the military finally was forced to "allow" pagans/Wiccans to decorate their veterans graves with a pentacle, though over 3 dozen different symbols for other religions were available.

VA Approves Wiccan Pentacle Gravemarker

The American Civil Liberties Union and Americans United for the Separation of Church and State brought separate lawsuits against the Veterans Administration; both lawsuits concerned the Veterans Administrations failure to make a decision regarding allowance of Wiccan Pentacle grave markers in National Cemeteries. The VA announced reachment of a settlement Monday regarding the suit brought by Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, this settlement also resolved the ACLU's mirror lawsuit. The lawsuits requested that the VA be forced to make a decision regarding use of the Pentacle; the VA has now agreed to allow the Pentacle to be used as a grave marker in national cemeteries.

The ACLU and AU's lawsuits alleged many things including that the VA's hesitancy in approving the symbol resulted from President Bush's opinions towards Wicca. While Governor of Texas President Bush expressed his view that Wicca was not a real religion when he learned that the military allowed Wiccan soldiers to meet on military bases for religious services. He disagreed with the military's recognition of Wicca as a religion and stated that he wished the military would change their minds. The AU's lawsuit claimed that the VA's actions were based on Bush's opinions. The AU and the ACLU also argued that the VA's practice of keeping a list of allowable religious symbols, while excluding others was in violation of soldier's constitutionally guaranteed right to freedom of religion. The contradiction of soldiers who fight, and many who give their lives, defending our freedoms being denied the right to have a grave marker from their chosen religion was apparent to many. The subject was given much attention by the blogosphere and covered heavily on message boards where the VA received much criticism for their actions from Wiccans and non-wiccans alike.

The first request for a pentacle grave marker was filed with the VA by a Wiccan church nine years ago. The request was filed by the church on behalf of the family of a deceased Wiccan soldier. The VA neither approved nor denied the symbol. Had the VA denied the symbol then the soldier's family would have been able to contest the denial in court. During this time six other religious symbols were approved. One symbol was approved within weeks of the application. The Va's refusal to make a decision concerning the pentacle effectively mired the families of fallen, Wiccan service members in legal limbo until the ACLU and AU intervened. The mirror lawsuits requested that the VA make a decision to end the quagmire, and opened the way for more litigation if the VA denied the symbol.

The settlement contained a provision promising Pentacle grave markers for all fallen soldiers whose families have applied for one to be placed on the tombstones within 90 days. The settlement also agreed that the VA would pay $225,000 for court costs and legal fees. The ACLU represented the plaintiffs: the Aquarian Tabernacle Church, and the Correllian Nativist Church. The suit also named petitioners: Kathleen Egbert, Patricia Darlene Howell Corneilson, and Scott Stearn. The former two are family members of deceased Wiccan service members and the latter is an ailing Wiccan veteran who wishes to have the pentacle grave marker placed on his tombstone after his passing. The AU represented: the Circle Sanctuary Church. The AU also named petitioners: Roberta Stewart, Karen Depolito, and Jill Medicine Heart Combs all family members of ailing or deceased Wiccan service members. The Isis Invicta military mission, a Wiccan and pagan congregation for military members was also named in the suit.

The settlement came after the AU and VA presented oral arguments to the court on April 10th. The Pentacle now joins 38 other approved religious symbols on the VA's list. The ACLU and the AU lauded the decision as a victory for the cause of religious freedom.

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The Associated Press
pickup in The Las Vegas (Nevada) Sun
Monday 23 April 2007

Veterans agency, Wiccans
settle grave symbol suit

by SCOTT BAUER, Associated Press Writer

MADISON, Wisconsin -- A nearly 10-year quest by Wiccans to have their religious symbol added to the list of emblems allowed in national cemeteries and on government-issued headstones of fallen soldiers ended Monday with a lawsuit settlement.

The agreement was reached between the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and Wiccans, including a Fernley, Nev., woman, who sued to include the five-pointed star in the list of "emblems of belief" allowed on VA grave markers.

Eleven families nationwide are waiting for grave markers with the pentacle, said Selena Fox, a Wiccan high priestess with Circle Sanctuary in Barneveld and a plaintiff in the lawsuit.

The settlement calls for the pentacle, whose five points represent earth, air, fire, water and spirit, to be placed on grave markers within 14 days for those who have pending requests with the VA.

"I am glad this has ended in success in time to get markers for Memorial Day," Fox said.

The pentacle joins 38 symbols the VA already permits on gravestones. They include commonly recognized symbols for Christianity, Buddhism, Islam and Judaism, as well as those for smaller religions such as Sufism Reoriented, Eckankar and the Japanese faith Seicho-No-Ie.

"This settlement has forced the Bush Administration into acknowledging that there are no second class religions in America, including among our nation's veterans," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which brought the lawsuit on the Wiccans' behalf.

The VA sought the settlement in the interest of the families involved and to save taxpayers the expense of further litigation, VA spokesman Matt Burns said. The agency also agreed to pay $225,000 in attorneys' fees and costs.

At a news conference in Washington, Lynn said federal documents uncovered during the litigation showed that President Bush's personal beliefs influenced the VA's refusal to allow the pentacle on grave markers. In a 1999 ABC News "Good Morning America" segment about Wiccan ceremonies at Fort Hood in Texas, Bush, then the state's governor, said, "I don't think witchcraft is a religion. I would hope the military officials would take a second look at the decision they made."

"This then shows up in documents in this administration, noting that any decision will be -- in one word used -- political," Lynn said. "It's clear to us that there were political, not constitutional considerations."

VA officials did not immediately return phone messages left Monday on Lynn's comments.

Wicca is a nature-based religion based on respect for the earth, nature and the cycle of the seasons. Variations of the pentacle not accepted by Wiccans have been used in horror movies as a sign of the devil.

The agreement settles a lawsuit filed in November by veterans' widows and others alleging that the VA made "excuse after excuse" over nearly 10 years for not recognizing the pentacle.

VA-issued headstones, markers and plaques can be used in any cemetery, whether it is a national one such as Arlington or a private burial ground like that on Circle Sanctuary's property.

The lawsuit was filed by Circle Sanctuary, Isis Invicta Military Mission -- a Wiccan and Pagan congregation serving military personnel based in Geyserville, Calif. -- Jill Medicine Heart Combs, whose veteran husband is severely ill, and two members of Circle Sanctuary whose husbands were veterans -- Roberta Stewart of Nevada and Karen DePolito of Utah.

At the Washington news conference announcing the settlement, Stewart said the fight for recognition was long, but now it was time to celebrate.

"I was in shock the day I ordered my husband's memorial plaque and was told I could not put our emblem of faith, the pentacle, on that plaque," she said. "I cried for days. I never thought my own government would take the freedoms my husband and I held so dear away from us."

The American Civil Liberties Union said the agreement also settles a similar lawsuit it filed last year against the VA. In that case, the ACLU represented two other Wiccan churches and three individuals.


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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-07-2007
Tue, 01-15-2008 - 4:43pm

Take a breath, girl.

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"You're cute. I like you."

"What you se

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-17-2006
Tue, 01-15-2008 - 8:40pm

Keep in mind that decisions re: what is and isn't paid for collectively via universal healthcare

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-17-2006
Tue, 01-15-2008 - 8:55pm
Just a caution - commenting negatively on the nature of other posters is a TOS violation.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-18-2004
Wed, 01-16-2008 - 6:11am

>>I will maintain the point of my first post - Christians and Christianity is the only faith one can laugh at, degrade and disrespect.<<

Really???

Here are some cartoons poking fun of Jewish people
http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/j/jewish.asp

Muslim cartoons (check out number 5)
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/directory/m/muslim.asp

Pagan cartoons - they are even making fun of burning people at the stake.
http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/p/pagan.asp

Oh and lets not forget Simpson's and south park. They have been ingrained in north American culture and they mock other religions relentlessly.

I think you are probably more apt to notice cracks made against Christians because you are one not because they are more socially acceptable.









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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-15-2008
Wed, 01-16-2008 - 5:13pm
I was just lurking around and wanted to add my two cents (hope that's ok). I consider myself one of those PC women who believes abortion is an unfortunate necessity. Ironically, I was raised in a very conservative Southern Baptist home. My mother actually works in a Pregnancy Crisis Center. Anyhoo...to answer your question. I believe that the solution to abortion reduction is in responsible, age appropriate sex education that starts at a young age. Evidence continues to show that abstinence only sex ed program don't work. There has been an increase in teenage pregnancies AND sexually transmitted diseases for the first time in about 14 years. Knowledge is power. Thanks for letting me share my thoughts...

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