Which lives are disposable?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Which lives are disposable?
67
Wed, 11-05-2003 - 1:47pm
This is a repost from way down the thread. It is part of a different conversation that I had with critters. Can anyone explain their side on this? It is an honest set of questions and points. I would love to hear what all sides have to say.

If life were so disposable then why do we mourn those we know? We don't mourn peole we don't know - and abortion prevents you from knowing that little person - which makes their life and death a moot point - from my understanding and observations, in an elective abortion. Just because you don't acknowledge a life doesn't mean that it never existed or deserved to. (You not personal to anyone BTW). If you cannot create the exact same life with the same soul, you should not be able to easily destroy it once it has been created. What if those of you who believe in SOUL HOPING are wrong? Sure, I could be wrong, I really could and G-d could be the Mother and there could be faries and leprechans, and acknowledge that. But what if you are wrong? What if that soul has lost his/her one chance to exist? What can you say about the time already taken from these other beings who in soul are identical to you and me? I couldn't live a life where I had to wonder about such things, ya know? Maybe my contious is what has led me through this path. I feel a social responsibity in all things that I have an understanding and passion for. And for children, I will always advocate. For HUMAN BEINGS I will advocate. For the elderly, I will fight. Why? Because I truely care. Not to piss PC off. So when someone like abbyoyo or ficky get snide, it is a bit unerving. I never intend harm or hurt. Doesn't mean I don't do it, but I never intend to. It is not in me to do so.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Wed, 11-05-2003 - 5:02pm
Winds, I'm sorry if you think I'm snide. Sometimes I think I see you stating as absolute fact, something which I do not know to be true in my own experience or reading, and I feel a need to call it into question. If I am perceived as snide, that's not my intent.

The whole premise behind to PC/PL thing for me is, WHEN is it really "a life?" It may be technically "alive" (as in, has a pulse - and to be sure as pregnancy progresses the fetus acquires more and more aspects that any of us would consider qualifications for an "individual" being "alive), but before a certain stage in fetal development it cannot be proven to perceive anything. So IMHO that makes it *more* acceptable to abort during that time (I mean EC and early first-trimester). I can't decide the moral absolute of this situation, I can't get inside the womb and test the fetus myself for its response or nonresponse. I must say that many pictures on PL sites do look as though they have been tampered with to me. This is not meant as a dig at you - I just look at the image quality, it doesn't look like any ultrsounds I personally have ever seen. So I can't really say "yes abortion is acceptable," or "no it is not acceptable" with absolute authority. In this situation I must default to each individual woman and leave it up to her conscience.

I understand that for you your default setting is the opposite - you say we can't prove it's NOT a life, so the woman should have to continue with the pregnancy. I understand that, I respect that coming from your point of view.

I think if the fetus is unaware it is being aborted (again this applies only to the first trimester), for women who do not believe in ensoulment at conception - or are unsure - it is not a clear-cut issue. For certain there is the termination of something that would have grown into an infant and then a child if left undisturbed. The woman herself must decide whether she can live with that.

I don't think the PBA bill, even if not struck down by the court, will make a huge impact in reproductive freedom. The only thing that scares me about it is it may be the first link in a long chain of eroding reproductive rights for women. Before you present the "don't have sex if you don't want children" argument, remember that there are also married couples who practice birth control and maybe intend to have a child later when they are more prosperous and better able to care for it, and find themselves pregnant. Not all in that situation will decide to accept the "will of God" or "fate," and I cannot condemn them. I am not in a place to do so. I do not consider myself qualified to do so.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 11-05-2003 - 5:14pm
"When is it *actually* a life?"

All things are relative....The fetus' life is what it is. It is what it is at that moment just as ours is what it is at this moment....it's all relative. Who are we to judge whose is more worthy? Just because of location? Or size? We all had the same starting point...in the womb....we just lucked out that our mother's "wanted" us.

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 11-05-2003 - 5:16pm
Ya know what I find incredibly sad? We(general we) will mourn a person we've never met, like a celebrity...like John Ritter or Princess Di...a person we do not know...but we don't mourn the child...a child who is of us...that we had killed.

Sue

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 11-05-2003 - 5:59pm
See what is REALLY unnerving to me is how many ways we can have the same conversation with different words.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Wed, 11-05-2003 - 7:43pm
HUH? How do you know that a mother who aborts a child does not morn and grieve for that
Silver                                  
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Wed, 11-05-2003 - 7:47pm
Yes we did nt
Silver                                  
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 11-05-2003 - 10:10pm
I did say general we. In general they are not mourned...in fact we are right now sueing to reinstate rights to kill them in the most god awful way possible.
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Wed, 11-05-2003 - 10:30pm
Thank yo Fricky. Your post was so kind and nice and informative of your stand. I respect hat so much. I will try harder to read your post a little more 'gently' and not get too wacky. Mostly it is not indirect respence to you, but I am moved so strongly about my convictions that sometimes I don't realize the passion in my posting and put too much passion into reading. Forgive me? I truely hope.

A.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Wed, 11-05-2003 - 10:38pm
You hit a good point there. This is point that has haunted me for a long time. My mother had me firts, married to a crazy man who beat her an me. She was only 17. I was born 9 months to the day of Roe v Wade. My sster was born 14 months later, and sufferd enough abuse as to become epaleptic (sp). After leaving him, we were in the worst kind of poverty you could imagine - but no longer abused. My mothe married agin, and had my brothe when she was 21. Within 3 months of his birth, she was pregnant again. She claims she really didn't understand it all back then (1978) and that my Step-father claimed to leave. So, 3 months into her pregnancy, she aborted.

I wonder so often how much my sister brother and my lives could actually mean to her. How could any of her children have been disposable? Her situation was bad with each of us, but she allowed us to conintue the lives she started for us. How is it any different than having four children, taking a four shot revolver, putting one bullet in it, and playing roulette? That is how I feel, as a child who feels so often that I am a survivor simply because I survived a CHOICE while another who would have been my siter or brother as much so as the one's I love was not allowed to continue. Yes, I have checked the sites regarding abortion siblings survivors guilt. But it is there, for real reasons in my heart, and it is a pain and confussion that I will always try to alieviate.

I am so greatful for my life - I cannot express to you how I feel when I think that it was alright for my life to be disposable. With all of the bad and evil and ugly that I have seen and lived through, I am still so glad to be here - to not only have been human at one time, but to have been alowed to become the human being that my conception entitled me to.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-05-2003
Wed, 11-05-2003 - 10:39pm
We would have to acknowled that these are lives, humans and entitled to continue the life we intiated before that would ever happen.

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