Why I'm prolife/beyond religious reasons

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-18-2005
Why I'm prolife/beyond religious reasons
103
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 2:30pm

I was recently involved in a debate on abortion on a different board here at Ivillage, there were those that were pro choice and those that are pro life and it was a good debate, if anyone is from the board I apologize in advance for "re-stating" some of what I wrote here in this forum.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-07-2007
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 2:49pm

Your beliefs begin and END with your own physical parameters. There is no right whatsoever, no rational explanation, no intelligent reason for the government to EVER interfere with the choices a woman makes about her own body.

We do NOT become public property simply by the event of a fertilized egg. A woman is still her own person and to force continued pregnancy upon her under the guise of "knowing better" is a giant step backward. If you want to consider yourself property to be controlled by others, go ahead. To each their own.

Those of us who choose not to be violated at the whims of people UNINVOLVED in our personal situations will continue to live as physically autonomous individuals.

As to intact D & X (there is no such thing as a Partial Birth Abortion) there are indeed documented instances where a DOCTOR (I didn't see you claim to be one) felt it was the way to go for their particular patient. If you were truly interested in knowing the facts, they are out there to find. All this bill does is endanger women in crisis situations. Again, maybe YOU would like your doctor's hands tied in an emergency but most of us would not.

We do not live in China. I would no more condone legislating choice away from women than I would vote for legalizing rape. A violation is a violation.

T

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"You're cute. I like you."

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-10-2003
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 4:09pm

in the words of a wise former poster who speaks my language as well, I give you my position:

"I can only speak for my *own* pro choice position, but here it is:

My position:

I believe the woman who is pregnant deserves the right to choose whether to continue the pregnancy, as no one else can assume those risks in her stead, thus they cannot make that choice. I do not believe the z/e/f has an inherent right that supersedes the right of the woman to determine the course of pregnancy, and thus the unborn's rights do not usurp the woman's until later in the pregnancy.

Until such time that viability can be reasonably established for the fetus, with a minimal of medical intervention (24 weeks), it is each woman's right to choose whether she continues the pregnancy or terminates it. No one else, including the father of the fetus, can assume the health and physical risks which can be fatal or leave long-term health problems. Additionally, in many cases, no one else assumes the risks to her employment or financial solvency. Therefore, the right to make an autonomous choice shall lie with the mother during this period of non-viability.

Exceptions can be made later in the gestation if there is a significant threat to the woman's health; meaning a risk to her health in the immediate period of pregnancy or a long-term problem being caused by the pregnancy, delivery and post-partum period. Each pregnancy also carries a 28% risk of the necessity for a cesarean section. This is major abdominal surgery that can cause life-threatening infection, thrombosis in the recovery period, adhesions that may cause abdominal problems necessitating surgery later in life. Whether health risks are cited as her reason to abort, they nonetheless constitute a reasonable threat to her well-being, and as such, no one has the right to force a woman to continue a pregnancy that may result in injury to her. Additionally, HER life supersedes the importance of the fetus, even up to birth.

"The surgery itself, as opposed to medical problems that might lead to a cesarean increases the risk of maternal death, hysterectomy, hemorrhage, infection, blood clots, damage to blood vessels, urinary bladder and other organs, postpartum depression, post traumatic stress syndrome, and rehospitalization for complications. Potential chronic complications from scar tissue adhesions include pelvic pain, bowel problems, and pain during sexual intercourse. Scar tissue makes subsequent cesareans more difficult to perform, increasing the risk of injury to other organs as well as placenta previa, placenta accreta, infertility, ectopic pregnancy, uterine rupture in subsequent pregnancies and the risk of chronic problems from adhesions." http://www.ican-online.org/resources/faqs.htm

Also, if the fetus is determined by means of genetic testing (amniocentesis or chorionic villi sampling) to have a chromosomal abnormality, or is determined by proper ultrasound to have a significant deformity, the right to abort shall be her choice and thus is protected past the point of viability if necessary- as these conditions are not always detectible earlier in the pregnancy, as yet.

What you cannot do is force a woman to continue a pregnancy. It is about more than a baby- it's her body being pregnant for 9 months of her life, and the myriad of risks that go along with it. You cannot forcibly, legally, or morally take the autonomous choice over pregnancy away from the woman.

When you can answer "yes" to all of the points below, then you can make another woman's pregnancy your business, kay?

• you are paying for the woman's health insurance, deductibles, co-pays & out-of-pocket expenses, prescription costs, day care costs that may be incurred as a result o fthat pregnancy, lost wages and benefits
• you are performing any and all errands that she is normally responsible for doing and that she may become unable to do: banking, grocery shopping, cleaning the house, daily cooking, laundering, yardwork, caring for other children she might have, including driving them to school, sporting events, dance/music/gymnastic/etc. lessons, all the family doctor appointments, and care for her if she needs to go on bedrest for the remainder of the pregnancy
• you agree to work at her place of employment in her stead when she must miss work due to prenatal appointments, or pregnancy complications- or even if she is fatigues and needs to nap as women sometimes need during pregnancy :-)
• you will purchase all of the baby's equipment (crib, stroller, high chair, car seat), clothing, formula (if she declines breast-feeding, and I assume she still has autonomy over her mammary galnds, if not uterus) diapers
• you will cover the insurance needs of that child until 18, and the costs of food, clothing and shelter
• if the fetus has an anomaly, you will care for it 24/7, cover its medical insurance, therapy costs- including but not limited to physical, occupational, speech, cognitive, water, horseback, educational- all special needs equipment - including custom wheelchairs, bath charis, travel seats, car seats, prone standers, supine baords, corner chairs and any other positional equipment that mainatians range of motion beneficial to the child. Also you will cover orthotics and braces needed by the child
• if the woman should die or become permanently disable due to the pregnancy or childbirth, you will award her family the amount of money it takes to fulfill all of the functions she wuld have provided had she not been forced to remain pregnant against her consent and will for the rest of her life expectancy
• if the woman should die before that child reached majoirty, you will become financially responsible for ½ of all costs incurred by and due that child until he or she reaches majortity

I think , at the age of 42 yrs old, having had SIX pregnancies, 2 miscarriages, 4 cesearean sections, 3 D&Cs, buried my oldest when he died at 6 yrs old, 25 YEARS of successful birth control and conceiving all 6 times pursposefully, deliberately and willfully, having had a tubal ligation once done, that *I* AM quite mature enough to assess my own circumstances and risk factors and *I* AM more than ABUNDANTLY capable, in fact, I am UNIQUELY capable of making my own reproductive health care choices, without your intrusion and unwanted interest.

And as it regards men:

If it was just as much his body,he might get input. But, since pregnancy and it's risks, both long & short-term, both acute and chronic, mild and severe, rest with the woman- he doesn't get a veto.

Regrettable it may be that he does not have this veto power, and unfair it may seem- as long as the continuation or termination of a pregnancy directly impacts the woman's body, the only choice will be hers. So as a woman bears the brunt of the health & physical risks, she will be challenged to make the ultimate decision.

She MOST EMPHATICALLY has EVERY right to abort- even in the case of disagreement with the man. When the man grows a uterus and may gestate & give birth, then, and only THEN, does his vote actually weigh more than the woman's.
Face it: if a woman is pregnant, and there is a disagreement between the man & the woman as to whether to continue the pregnancy or have an abortion, there can NEVER be a fair & equitable solution. Never. In either option, one person's choice supersedes the other. In NO WAY should the winning vote come from the person whose body is NOT being used, whose body or life is NOT assuming the inherent short-term, as well as long-term, physical & psychological risks of gestation and birth.

While I feel empathy for any man in this situation, that empathy will NEVER outweigh my firm and inequivocal conviction that the woman, and the woman ONLY, must be the one who makes the final choice in the course of a pregnancy."

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-06-2010
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 5:38pm

I agree with you 100%!

I think everyone is in tilted to their own opinion but when their opinion begins to tell others what they should and not should be able to do there is a problem.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-08-2007
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 5:40pm
Why don't all the women who find themselves with abusive men, no money, or in the process of continuing their education (common reasons given for having an abortion) just not have sex! Or if you do understand that pregnancy is a risk! The only way a woman has sex against her will is in the case of a rape (which accounts for 1% of all pregnancies). And every form of birth control tells you it's not 100%. So the whole pro choice agrument states that women should be given a choice. And they should: The choice to not have sex. It's not like a pregnancy monster comes and attacks innocent women in their sleep and they find themselves in this sitution. They made the choice to have sex to get to where they are in a pregnancy, so why are we fighting to give them a second choice? Isn't one enough?

Ella Grayce

Lilypie1st Birthday Ticker
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-06-2010
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 5:47pm

"Why don't all the women who find themselves with abusive men, no money, or in the process of continuing their education (common reasons given for having an abortion) just not have sex!"

I am none of those cases. I am not in school, my husband is one of the kindest people I have ever met and while I am not rich I have money. I also am 100% child free and happy with my decision.

I am not going to never have sex with my husband because there is a small change of pregnancy. I use BC to prevent it, I hope I never get pregnant, but if I do I will have an abortion.

Sex is not just for making babies, it is for people to share and enjoy. Some with only one person some with many. For me it is an expression of my love to my husband, one that only he and I share. No matter what we do or who we are with sex is one thing only he and I share that we have never shared with anyone else.

"So the whole pro choice agrument states that women should be given a choice. And they should: The choice to not have sex."

No, all women should be given the choice of what happens to her body and her life and if she allows an unplanned pregnancy to continue.

I 100% will not abstain from sex forever because I don't want children. I can only imagine thought that once you don't want any children you and your husband/So will never have sex again?




Edited 4/29/2007 5:52 pm ET by seirith
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-18-2006
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 5:55pm

<<<<>>>>
I am pro-chocie and believe the baby i aborted was/is my daughter.

<<<>>>
So the mother, who's body is being used and who's life is being affected should have no protection, no right and no say???

<<<>>>
There are Roe v. wade, born alive infant protection act, casey v. planned parenthood, parental consent/notification

<<>>
and when the father wants nothing to do with the baby?? or is forcing the women to abort???

<<>>>
What about when the baby is wanted?? I aborted a very loved and wnated daughter. Many women love/are attached to the e/f/b that is in them, that still doesnt change the things effecting her choice

<<<>>>
With out my D&E my life would not be ok...I would be alive, but i wouldn't want to be.

<<<>>
I dont get this, if your soo worried about these babies why would you want them to be born into bad situations where they will feel nothign but pain?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-18-2006
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 5:59pm
<<<<<>>>>
So married couples???? There are many amrried coupes who are not ready for children/cant afford them/are not ready for another child...should they never have sex???
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-07-2007
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 7:27pm

Why don't all crazy people who are depressed and suicidal just kill themselves rather than go on killing sprees?

Why don't people who are poor get a job rather than commit crimes and steal?

Why don't people learn how to deal with their anger rather than abusing their children?

Ahh, in a perfect world...

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-10-2003
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 8:15pm

quote: They made the choice to have sex to get to where they are in a pregnancy, so why are we fighting to give them a second choice? Isn't one enough?
/end quote

rofmlmao. righhhht. so if sterilization isn't even 100%, those women too should choose celibacy? lol- i think not. i myself have taken reasonable measures to avoid pregnancy for decades, with the exceptions of deliberate and planned pregnancies when we chose - and with 100% success in both areas- i don't think i'll lose much sleep over the slim chance that our current birth control should fail and i choose to abort. and i'll keep that option too, thankyouverymuchfornotpeekingorpokinginmyreproductiveorgans.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-08-2007
Sun, 04-29-2007 - 8:25pm
You're right. You do have the right to have sex, but with that right comes responsibility. And once I have decided I have enough children I will continue to have sex also, but if I were to have an unplanned pregnancy I wouldn't have an abortion. I don't take the easy way out at a child's expense.

Ella Grayce

Lilypie1st Birthday Ticker

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