About my friend who "would'nt bf" (m)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
About my friend who "would'nt bf" (m)
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Mon, 05-26-2003 - 9:08am
Rememeber that LONG debate we had going on ... i was so dissapointed she wasnt even going to give bf a shot? Well, she delivered 3 weeks early, & the baby GIRL (yippee!) is doing great! & guess what? rofl, after ALL that debate, she *is* breastfeeding!!!!!! I have to lol b/c i began such a long debate over the fact i was so dissapointed.

I actually found out she was bf from our other friend, as she spoke w/ her 1st. So when i finally spoke w/ her (day 4 after delivery) she told me the babies bilirubin was high (17 & 18) the past 2 days & if it hit 19 they would admit the baby. So i just asked "are you breast of bottle feeding her?" & she said "Well, I am breastfeeding her, but only for 2 weeks". I just said "Great! What is the Ped saying since the high bilirubin?" & SURE ENOUGH ... she said "Well, they told me to supplement her w/ formula to get the Bili down". Errr!!!!!! To make a long story short, she really listened to my knowledge & experience & took my advice to not supplement at this time (her Bili was being cheecked daily anyway), & to nurse nurse nurse (her milk was in), every 2 hours today & i bet by the next day her bili would be down ... i found out she didnt "know" to nurse more often, & in FACT, said "Well, shes pretty sleepy so i was only nursing her like every 4-5 hours b/c everyone told me, dont wake a sleeping baby". See what happens when someone DOESNT educate themselves the right way on bf? I bet her Ped never even ASKED how often she was nursing of assessed it all! Just jumped RIGHT to "supplement w/ formula". So i also told her to contact the LC's at the hospital & get their input too.

& now, 4 days later, her bili is down to 15 & she's doing really well!

She may stop nursing after 2 weeks, she may not. But i am proud of her for at least giving it a try!

Just thought you guys would be interested in this update! R~ (who's dd has finally self weaned i think ... just this past week, at 3 yrs, 3 months! I am a LITTLE nostalgic, but more so FREE! lol)

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wow that's great news. Sierra had high bilirubin (19.9) & was admitted. The nurses also told me to supplement w/ formula & when I asked my ped. she hit the roof. She told me that supplementing was the absolute WORST thing to do as it would keep my supply down. Also, I thought I was told that babies who have such bad jaundice are more sleepy & if you don;t wake them to nurse, the bili levels won't come down because they aren;t getting enough food to excrete the excess bili out. Anyways, great news about your friend & maybe she will find that she enjoys BF & will nurse for longer!

Janet & nursling Sierra

Avatar for cl_sunny_side_up
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 05-26-2003 - 11:42am
Hang on a minute.......you're supposed to wake a sleeping baby to nurse??

Please don't laugh at me....but I never did with mine. I just let them sleep. My second was hospitalized at 4weeks old and only 4lbs for a very high bilirubin. He was so tired he couldn't suck properly. I do know that high bili make a baby sleepy. BUT.....besides all that. You're supposed to wake a nursing baby?? What about demand?? Isn't that scheduling??

I am not trying to be sarcastic.....I WANT to know!!


christine

PS......YEAH!!!!


~christine~

Avatar for kfira71
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 05-26-2003 - 11:56am
That's what I was thinking, too. Isn't that scheduling a baby? If she's sleeping, she's obviously not demanding a feeding, right?

With the "never wake a sleeping baby" thing, we actually did wake our DS to keep him on a feeding schedule during the day only. Throughout the night, we were just thrilled for however long he slept, and would never dream of waking him.

~Kim

"Becoming a parent means agreeing to allow your heart to go walking around outside of your body."

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 05-26-2003 - 12:44pm
It is confusing, but if a baby isn't nursing often enough, you do need to wake them, because if you only feed on demand they won't gain well. Once they are more alert they can set their own schedule. Both of mine needed to be woken up in the first few weeks. Newborns generally shouldn't go longer than 2 hours during the day and 4 hours at night between feedings (and may cluster feed, too). It also helps if they have days and nights confused to nurse more frequently during the day.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
In this situation you MUST wake a sleeping baby because it is an absolute must to get a baby w/ jaundice to excrete more. When a baby has jaundice the liver isn't working as it should & the bilirubin is excreted through waste (not broken down in the liver as it should be), therefore, if baby is sleeping too much, which is the case with babies who severly jaundiced, they will not consume enough to help excrete the excess.

Janet & nursling Sierra

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Basically you can only demand feed a baby who is capable of demanding. DS was a sleepy baby for the first couple of weeks (3 weeks early and jaundiced too) and the problem was that he couldn't stay awake long enough to take enough calories on board so he didn't have enough energy to wake up and ask for the next feed. It was a vicious cycle that had to be broken. Once he was well enough to tell us when he was hungry I let him set the pace but in those early days he would have starved if I had waited for him to 'demand'.

Isabel and Crispin





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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
I would say ALWAYS wake a sleeping baby to nurse if it is a newborn, esp. a preemie, and it has been more than 3 hours. Some would say let them go for 4, but I wouldn't feel comfy at more than 3. I define scheduling as trying to make a baby wait LONGER, not offering to nurse sooner, esp. in the early days (I let my 7 mos old sleep 4,5,6,8 hr stretches no problem, of course!).

Reason being: the breast doesn't really just dribble out like a bottle. If your baby is deeply asleep and you put a breast in their mouth, they'll do nothing. If you put a bottle in their mouth (which is easier than a breast anyhow, given its rigidity), it will dribble a bit...and the baby will eventually swallow by reflex. They'll get some nourishment without really working, and will get the energy/calories needed to wake up and feed properly.

This just doesn't work with breastfeeding, which is why some babies get really sleepy, and it's a vicious catch-22 situation whereby the sleepy baby doesn't wake up enough to feed, gets weaker and weaker, and thereby gets sleepier. Also, since nursing is hard work, they just don'T have the energy to do it.

IMHO a newborn breastfed baby should nurse WELL, swallowing copious amounts of milk (after the milk comes in) at LEAST once every 3 hours. Probably more. On only colostrum, i think in general more like once every hour max would be better (though *a* break of 3 hours for a non-avoidable thing like a carride home from hospital or something could be ok). Since that's only like 3-5 days or so it's not so bad. ;-)

I do know of one or 2 babies here and there who did fine on 4 hour stretches from day one, but they are by far the exception and not the rule.

So, now that we know what your REAL problem was, Christine, you should be ok when you have #3! ;-) LOL...

Fio.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
to add to my post to sunny.side.up on this, i should add, that many babies show signs of hunger before outright crying, including bringing their fists to their mouths, smacking their lips, sucking on fists, etc. Often they can do this while they are lightly asleep, in a light sleep cycle and this can be missed by the parents. This baby will often go back into a deep sleep cycle without having nursed, but they were really needing food *then*.

Waking babies up to nurse is ONLY something I do for the first 4-6 weeks or so. After that...NEVER lol! ;-)

fio.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Yeah, and I would add that sometimes clothing can make all the difference. ;-) With my first DD, the minute she wore clothing, she SLEPT AND SLEPT AND SLEPT. She'd sleep the 3 hours until I woke her, and was hard to wake. So except for outtings, for the first 3 weeks, I kept her in her diaper ONLY. That made all the difference and she was alert and nursed well.

With DD2 I didn't have to do this, as she was awake and alert even if she was clothed.

Fio.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-17-2003
WOW! My son self weaned at the same age!

Katie is 16 mnths and breast obsessed. I fed her in public today because we were out for the day and she wanted some. I found a quiet corner in the park. No-one would have noticed if a huge black dog hadn't leapt noisily on my lap for a share.

GROSS!!!

But no-one minded.

Jenny

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