Commitment, or lack thereof...

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-10-2003
Commitment, or lack thereof...
1085
Tue, 01-08-2008 - 1:56pm

So I just saw something somewhere else (won't specify where, but I bet a few of you will figure it out!) where a woman indicated that she WAS planning on breastfeeding, but now because of a heated debate about it, she doesn't want to anymore.


Ummmmm, are you kidding me?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2001
Wed, 01-30-2008 - 10:22am
<<

"This is from one of your OPs: <

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 01-30-2008 - 10:26am

Actually Toni, to begin with oversupply is VERY VERY common. 99% of calls that we support groups get where the mom is sure she "doesn't have enough milk" she actually has an overabundance. The "symptoms" in a baby tend to be very similar. ;-)

When you give birth, your body doesn't really "know" if you gave birth to 1 baby, 2 or 4. So it produces HEAPS of milk. ;-) But by about 6 weeks it has calmed down to meet the demand of the baby(ies) in question. IIRC, Adrienne didn't nurse for too long; I can't remember if it was 2 weeks, 2 mos, 6 weeks...but she was probably just barely past when the milk production switches over from autocrine to endocrine *if* that far PP (or is it the opposite...switching from endocrine to autocrine...I can't remember!). In any case, it happens around 6 weeks, and by then if you have been nursing every 3 hours for 10 minutes and your baby is sleepy and lethargic and hard to wake and doesn't nurse *efficiently* through the full 10 minutes, your body and boobs will have gotten the message that the oversupply really wasn't needed. But oversupply to begin with, and even probably by the point Adrienne weaned whenever that was, would still be very normal. *Not* having that oversupply is actually less likely, though I realize it happens (I think you said you never really got engorged; that tends to actually be an exception believe it or not, in the first weeks!). :-P





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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-10-2003
Wed, 01-30-2008 - 10:32am

I think we need to write a book "Parenting by Instinct".

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Wed, 01-30-2008 - 10:34am

I'm impressed with the way you are keeping up too! Sorry, it's incredibly difficult being the only one on one side of a discussion.

I'll just address a couple of things, more to point them out than anything else.

First, ezzo.info is much more than a "clearinghouse" for angry parents. You certainly do NOT have to go look at it, but please know that there is information from doctors, theologians, the AAP among others as well as parents for whom the Ezzos caused problems. And most of them are terribly sad, rather than angry.

Second, the words "infant management program" may not be in the 1995 edition, but it IS in THEIR teachings, in THEIR words.

Third, Anne Marie is most certainly co-author of the materials. GKGW started out as a sharing of what worked for the Ezzos to get such wonderfully well behaved children. Since it was Anne Marie who did the most parenting, a lot of it is HER teaching. In the "religion based" stuff, she's right up there on stage with him in the videos, teaching along with him.

Fourth, I think it's terribly unfair to blame new parents for the problems a faulty parenting philosophy brings on. You mention in a later post that you needed something to help you know what to do. Many new parents feel that way, and since they are so very inexperienced and lacking in practical knowledge, how WOULD they recognize the problems that the Ezzo materials brought on? Especially when this stuff worked for millions and millions of other families, so what's wrong with THIS baby?

A person cannot take the good and leave the bad if the person doesn't have the knowledge and/or experience to know which is which.

Fifth, if families for whom Babywise is "working" are questioned further, it turns out that many of them have "tweaked" it so much to MAKE it work, that they really aren't following Babywise at all. Just the faintest outline of it.

Sixth, It sounds like you and Naomi know each other very well, and you sound like a wonderful, caring, nurturing mother whose precious little one is growing and learning and thriving just fine!

Please don't give credit to Gary Ezzo for all the good you do.

Seventh, you people keep that "baby dust" garbage far away from me!! If you all wind up pregnant, great, fine, wonderful. I look forward to reading about it all. Just don't make me *part* of it. Ack, phooey! Not at THIS stage of my life! :o)

If you have access to a 2001 or 2006 edition of Babywise, I challenge you to compare it to your 1995 copy. I think you'll be amazed at how different the actual "program" is, even though he'll NEVER admit that the older stuff has problems.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2001
Wed, 01-30-2008 - 10:49am

<< In fact, he specifically instructs his followers NOT to tell their doctor that they are following his materials because they won't agree with it! The AAP sent out an official warning about his SCHEDULE causing "Failure to Thrive" in some infants. >>


Sadly, not all doctors disagree with it. When Kevin was about 18 months old, my SIL had just given birth to her first DS and came along on one of his well-baby visits to meet the doctor. Those two hit it off famously! When SIL mentioned that she was having a hard time getting the baby to STTN (mind you, the baby was about 3 WEEKS old at the time) and the doctor said, "Oh, have you read On Becoming Babywise? I highly recommend it!" That was my first clue that we weren't going to see eye-to-eye on a lot of things, and a few months later when she gave me a hard time for still nursing my then 20-month old ("because it's dairy, doncha know, and will make his cold worse! And still nursing, huh? Are we going to have to have a talk about this?") I switched peds.

Come join me on the Breast vs. Bottle Debate Board! Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket pregnancy calendar
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-05-2003
Wed, 01-30-2008 - 10:53am

I started flipping through my copy last night and I was getting so angry!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-10-2003
Wed, 01-30-2008 - 10:56am

I started flipping through my copy last night and I was getting so angry!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-12-2006
Wed, 01-30-2008 - 10:58am

I get what you're saying.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 01-30-2008 - 11:05am

I think some with oversupply will do ok with scheduling feeds, but not everyone. Impossible to know who will fare well and whose milk supply will end up dwindling away. i think partly it will depend on the baby. I have a friend who didn't have oversupply in a big way, whose 2nd daughter nursed once every 4 hours. She couldn't *force* (or co-erce) her to nurse more often. But she nursed *well* every 4 hours, with gusto and was wide awake and not lethargic, weak, sleepy, etc. I think *that* can make as much a difference as whether or not the mom's supply will dwindle, as the intial oversupply or not. If you are stimulated enough every 4 hrs you will produce enough to sustain baby. if you are NOT stimulated enough to sustain baby (who is slowly dehydrating and losing weight) you will not make enough.

:-)





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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2001
Wed, 01-30-2008 - 11:22am

<<(and if you were referring to my signature... that was my subtle announcement that I'm expecting again! :-D)>>


What?!?!?!?!?!?


I haven't gotten past this thread yet to see if there's anything in the fluff folder, but there'd better be something young lady!


Congratulations!


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