Goodbye for Now

Avatar for luv_my_boyz
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-07-2003
Goodbye for Now
21
Wed, 05-28-2003 - 2:41pm
I came to this board for an honest debate about the issues. It seems that I can't have the opinion that breastmilk is the healthiest choice and more women and babies should have the opportunity to experience it. I believe that there is a great deal of misinformation about bf and ff. I think that the formula companies really don't want women to breastfeed because they are in the business of making money and they do what they can to disrupt bf- be it before birth or during the time women may be experiencing difficulty. I believe they have a vested interest in maintaining the "bottlefeeding culture". I believe a powerful tool they have is the use the medical community. Whenever I express these views in whatever form they come out, it seems I am labeled militant, extremist, judgmental, whatever, you name it. I've never once called anyone a "militant formula feeder".

If someone is really informed and they don't want to breastfeed, fine. SAHOUSEWIFEMOMMY, I don't want you to breastfeed, OK? Many women who would breastfeed given the right circumstances are being robbed, and their babies are being robbed too- that is my opinion. Could it just be that I actually care about the health of women and children? Go ahead and say that I have no right to care and you don't want my caring- I know that is what some of you are thinking. Who knows, maybe one day I'll be proven sorely wrong. But I believe that one has to stick to their convictions.

I am becoming waaaaaaaay too emotional about this debate board and am spending way too much time here, so I'm gonna take a break for awhile. I may read the responses to this post, but I'm not going to participate any longer.

Danielle

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Wed, 05-28-2003 - 3:06pm
So sorry to see you go, but I totally understand. I took a break the last couple of days. Sometimes you just need to get away from it emotionally. And sometimes, it does take too much time. I generally find that I enjoy life more when I stay away from the board and spend more time with dd.

I do think that it is hard for all of us to post without emotions. We are talking about raising our children. I wish that we could post just debating the issue logically, with no emotion, but I don't really see that ever happening. The fact is that bm is superior to formula, so whenever you debate that, a ff mom is always going to feel that you are telling her that she is giving her child something inferior. Therefore, you have to believe that formula is just as good, or you are being judgmental or militant.

I've has posts from ff'ers that have made me feel attacked, yet I never label them militant or judgmental, I usually don't even bring it up. But I think ff'ers as a whole are more on the defensive due to the position of the medical establishment that breast is best. So in order to participate on the debate board, you either have to accept that bf'ers are always going to be unfairly labeled, or not participate in the debate.

Take care and good luck with whatever else you do!

Sherry

Avatar for cl_sunny_side_up
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 05-28-2003 - 3:08pm
Oh for crying out loud. I really dislike this sort of ploy to get responses.

Danielle....if you want to leave, just stop posting.


christine


~christine~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Wed, 05-28-2003 - 3:20pm
Why was your response to Ingrid different? You said "I must say.....let it roll off your back." I thought Ingrid's post was oversensitive and over emotional, yet you were understanding to her.

I think Danielle had some really good points and she's right.

Sherry

Avatar for cl_sunny_side_up
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 05-28-2003 - 3:26pm
Because Ingrid didn't say she was leaving. If she had....you can bet I would have responded differently. Posts that begin....."I'm leaving" are nothing more than pity parties. I don't care which side of the fence you're on.

It seems to me that both Ingrid and Danielle are bfers. So what's your point?? I'm certainly not favoring ffers here.

Apparently, Danielle didn't read my post to Ingrid:)

christine


~christine~

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-08-2003
Wed, 05-28-2003 - 3:32pm
I never said you said you wanted me to bf'd (although I'm sure as a pro-bfer that is what you'd like to see). Debating the issue at hand only and just letting it be known from this side of the debate that formula feeders can be educated in their decision and they can make that decision to formula feed without a whole list of reasons. They can be just a few, just 1 or 2, or there can be just one reason and it is simply don't want to do bf'd, end of story.

I believe this debate board is honest imo. You have theopinion that breastmilk is the healthiest choice, well, as I've said numerous times, as a formula feeder I also agree with that and would never deny that because it is fact. Now that is not to say I don't feel formula is a perfectly acceptable and completely nutrional and safe alternative to those of us who don't desire to bf/pump or those who simply cannot.

More women and babies should have the opportunity to experience it? Again, ITA if that is the desire of the mother.

There is a great deal of misinformation on this subject. Again, we agree. I do disagree with you on the forethought of formula companies. They have a marketable product for those of us who don't/can't bf'd and like any other marketable product it is put out there for the consumer on the shelves and is marketed/advertised. So there is one point we will never agree on I'm sure, but we both have the right to our own opinions.

I'm not a militant formula feeder and you never called me that so please don't misunderstand. However I do have strong educated views of what is best for me and my baby and I came here to defend those views not have my mind changed, challenged yes, changed no.

I think you have every right to care about the issue. I have every right to care that women have the freedom to make an educated decision to choose formula feeding. We are on opposite sides of the coin but that is normal for an actual debate, wouldn't you say?

I also believe one has to stick to their convictions. You are doing right sticking by yours. I'm doing right by sticking to my convictions, again, I'm just on the other side of the debate from you.

If you are becoming emtional about the debate board and spending too much time then I agree you probably do need to back away. While this is a serious debatable issue it is cyberworld and is recreational when you look at it in the overall picture of day-to-day life in the real world. I come here because I'm interested, intrigued, and I want to support my views from my side and put up a formula feeding pro defense like you come here for the same reason on the bfing side. But I read, I post, and I move on to what is next in the real world and when I get a break I stop by the ol' computer to see what is gong on. Pure entertainment.

So please don't feel you have to leave, make it your own choice of what is best for how you are feeling. I don't think anyone thinks you should leave. I don't anyway.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 05-28-2003 - 3:40pm
Well, these are emotional issues, aren't they? I got caught up in the heat of the moment when I felt it was inferred that my whole parenting style was called into question as well as being told that my supply probably wouldn't last. I should have ignored the whole line of questioning to remain calm. Lesson learned. But I'm not leaving. ;)

- Ingrid


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Avatar for cl_sunny_side_up
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 05-28-2003 - 3:41pm
<<

So please don't feel you have to leave, make it your own choice of what is best for how you are feeling. I don't think anyone thinks you should leave. I don't anyway.>>>


Absolutely correct!!


christine




~christine~

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-17-2003
Wed, 05-28-2003 - 3:42pm
Hi Danielle,

I've not met any problems here but I do get judged for my life choices, even though I don't ram them down people's throats or judge others for what they have chosen to do.

I co-sleep, extend breastfeeding, demand feed and have never once in my life left a baby to cry. I used slings extensively and also use my milk medicinally on my young children when they are ill. But I hate to be labelled and I keep my thoughts to myself IRL, and here, unless I think the concept of bfing is being attacked. Then I'll defend it. But my lifestyle is for me. Its a reflection of my personality. Its not a reflection of my abilities. I don't think I am doing a better job than anyone else. It doesn't cross my mind. All parents with happy healthy children are doing a wonderful job. Its just we all do it differently.

I don't talk about my parenting style, because of prejudice. Apparently I am a flaky granola eating hippy who doesn't live in the real world. Apparently my children will become egocentric manipulative brats. You wouldn't believe the attitudes and insults out there for doing things in my chosen way. I've had people pulling faces together behind my back. That's pretty isolating and demoralising. Worst is people getting defensive when there hasn't been any kind of an attack. Why is this? I hate the idea of militant AP mums causing resentment on the internet (though I've yet to see it) if this is the reason for people being aversive.

Raising children is hard work and anyone who's children are thriving, WELL DONE! Ideologies are not relevent. Being a loving parent is. Let's not judge, lets just discuss, because different styles and ideas are interesting to know and we might hear something we could use ourselves.

Really so what if we bf or ff? What matters is that we feed our babies with love. So what if someone co-sleeps or not? Its not hurting one another what we do in our own homes. Its never right to attack someone's ideologies. I've never attacked anyone in my life, because I'm in no place to, but like you its assumed I do.

I agree that there is a long way to go in enabling mothers who want to BF to succeed. There are mothers who want to but give up due to bad advice and lack of support, and it often breaks their hearts, because they wanted to.

I help advise new mums on successful bfing but only if they come to me and ask for help. Breastfeeding should never happen under duress and a bottlefeeding mum who wants to bottlefeed should never be critisised, attacked or nagged, because she's not doing anything wrong. But if she does want to BF and can't find the right support, that's a terible thing and not uncommon either. Its the main reason for breastfeeding failing, and breastfeeding rates being low. Breastfeeding rates matter to me because they represent a group of 'keen to BF' women who have been let down by a lack of practical support. BFing is a wonderful source of joy if you are want to and you get the hang of it. Its not a nightmare of endless feeding and maternal duress. Its just LOVELY.

Sorry Danielle for going on. Its hardly been relevant to your post at all, but I wanted to say I get tired of being laughed at or treated in a defensive way because my parenting style is a little eccentric (relatively). Rather than attacking others, my experience IRL has been one of being attacked myself.

I felt from the posts today that AP was being spoken of as if it were something not to be proud of, and that those who practise it are of a certain personality. Its not so. You don't need to leave.

Jenny

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-17-2003
Wed, 05-28-2003 - 3:52pm
I think Danielle was making a valid point and that as such her post is valuable. Maybe your reaction to it demonstrates the point? BFers are not very popular in this day and age, because there's too much pressure on mums from the establishment. Successful BFing is almost a dirty word now. Us bfers soon learn to keep our mouths shut about our love of bfing or our successes. Are our voices wanted here???

I don't think that post was a manipulative ploy. I don't think Danielle has shown herself to be the sort of poster you wouldn't want here. She was just trying to say something.

Jenny

Avatar for cl_sunny_side_up
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 05-28-2003 - 4:01pm
Then say it.......like the way Ingrid did(another BFer!!), not some "I'm leaving" post. That sort of thing is just a huge put-off!! If you have a problem...post it!!

My beef isn't with her post as a bfer....it's with her POST!!


christine


~christine~

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