Let's get things going here, ladies! (m)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Let's get things going here, ladies! (m)
131
Wed, 03-26-2003 - 5:01pm
How about a simple discussion to get things moving? (Is there such a thing?)

Smokers - should moms who smoke breastfeed their babies? I'm only referring to cigarettes here, not marijuana or other drugs. Is a bf'er who smokes doing more harm to her baby than good?

Michelle

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 03-27-2003 - 1:35pm
To begin with...while I cannot bf'd due to my medications....I also would not CHOOSE to FF'd so I don't think it is right or fair to say people who would CHOOSE not to do so are selfish. I think that is FAR from the TRUTH.

And while you don't....there *are* people who bf'd their children who do equate the difference btw bm/formula with a full course healthy diet at home vs. eating at Steak 'n Shake or O'Charleys every other night. I've even seen that referenced over & over in articles of information on the bf/ff subject through out the years.




iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 03-27-2003 - 1:35pm
So you're saying that even though nothing has shown up in the last thousand years (and since they started documenting the effects of nicotine on people) that something might magically show up in the next 25 years? The chances of that are slim to none, and no way would I take slim-to-none odds to mean I (or anyone else) should FF.

Since you're pro-BF and *IF* you were a smoker, would you FF or BF? Put yourself on the other side of the issue. It doesn't make any difference, though, because you could easily say "Yes, I'd FF" now in a hypothetical situation but when push came to shove you'd still BF because you thought it best.

Brook

Avatar for all_girls4me
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 03-27-2003 - 1:45pm
In my opinion, people who smoke and BF are selfish and wrong. Aren't you putting your enjoyment of smoking over the health of your baby? And even if you smoke outside, everybody who's been around smokers knows that's the smoke still lingers, and it'll certainly be distributed through your breastmilk. To put smoking and FF on one level is just ignorant in my opinion. One is a perfectly adequate food source, the other is harmful substance, causing addiction and disease.

Ilka



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Avatar for cl_sunny_side_up
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Registered: 03-25-2003
Thu, 03-27-2003 - 2:09pm
"<<

Moms who are heavy smokers sometimes have problems with milk production, and their babies can have weight gain problems.

Babies of moms who smoke also have more ear infections and respiratory problems. Some of this may be from passive smoke inhalation.">>>


The half-life of nicotin is 95minutes!! That's pretty darn long!! Soooo...do you ALWAYS wait 95minutes after a cigarette before feeding your baby??

Your baby IS being exposed to second-hand smoke whether you want to admit it or not. Smoke lingers in hair, mouth, on the body, on your clothes. Do you shower and brush your teeth and put on clean clothes after smoking??


<<<"The breast milk of smoking mothers does smells like cigarettes.">>>


<<<"Something else to keep in mind is that infants exposed to passive smoke, whether they are breast-fed or not, appear to be at an increased risk for respiratory and middle ear infections, asthma, and sudden infant death syndrome.">>>


<<<"Smoking has a number of adverse effects upon lactation in terms of decreased production, interference with the let-down reflex and altered taste of breast milk. The infant may be affected through both nicotine in the milk and side-stream smoke. The effects may include colic, irritability, apnoeic episodes and immune system impairment. More than 15 cigarettes per day can lead to nicotine poisoning via breast milk.">>>


<<<"Ongoing exposure to cigarette smoke in the postnatal period is a well-recognised risk factor for sudden infant death syndrome.">>>



christine


~christine~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 03-27-2003 - 2:27pm
Here is some info from the AAP

http://www.in.gov/isdh/programs/breastfeeding/handbook/drug_transfer.htm

"BREASTFEEDING AND SMOKING: In the previous edition of this statement, the Committee on Drugs placed nicotine (smoking) in Table 2, “Drugs of Abuse for Which Adverse Effects on the Infant During Breastfeeding Have Been Reported.” The reasons for placing nicotine and, thus, smoking in Table 2 were documented decrease in milk production and weight gain in the infant of the smoking mother and exposure of the infant to environmental tobacco smoke as demonstrated by the presence of nicotine and its primary metabolite, cotinine, in human milk. There is controversy regarding the effects of nicotine on infant size at 1 year of age. There are hundreds of compounds in tobacco smoke; however, nicotine and its metabolite cotinine are most often used as markers of tobacco exposure. Nicotine is not necessarily the only component that might cause an increase in respiratory illnesses (including otitis media) in the nursing infant attributable to both transmammary secretion of compounds and environmental exposure. Nicotine is present in milk in concentrations between 1.5 and 3.0 times the simultaneous maternal plasma concentration, and elimination half-life is similar-60 to 90 minutes in milk and plasma. There is no evidence to document whether this amount of nicotine presents a health risk to the nursing infant."

They close by saying there is no evidence WHETHER this amount of nicotine presents a health risk to the nursing infant. Not just that there is no evidence that it does. But there is no evidence that it doesn't either. They don't know. Which is scary to me...

Although the Whyquit link that Christine posted (http://whyquit.com/whyquit/LinksBirth.html) was dismissed as "sensational," it seemed pretty thorough to me - there were links to supporting studies (from pretty sources like the Stanford Hospital and Clinic, the AMA, the Integrated Toxicology Program at Duke University, etc) for each of the symptoms listed, which included:

Addiction - 05/02

Atherosclerosis - 07/01

Middle ear infections - 02/02

Less breast milk - 12/91 12/92

Destruction of brain cells - 05/02

Colic or excessive crying - 03/89

Circulatory damage - 07/01 07/01

Chronic Depression - 10/00 10/00

Not being able to initiate breast feeding - 07/02

Sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) - 09/02 11/97

Decrease in your child's ability to learn or memorize - 05/02

Not wanting to initiate breast feeding due to smoking - 1999

70% increase in respiratory infections for first 6 months - 12/96

Growth of brain neurons to process nicotine - 05/02 03/02 11/95"

Personally, I'd feel a lot more comfortable going with the "risks" associated with putting my child on formula if I was a smoker. Just me though.

Sue




iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 03-27-2003 - 2:46pm
Did you actually look at the links provided to support their problems linked w/smoking while BFing? Some were broken/wrong links, some were referring to other age groups, and most referred to the effects of second-hand smoke. None of them actually cited anything about the effects of nicotine ingestion on a baby.

Brook

Avatar for cl_sunny_side_up
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Thu, 03-27-2003 - 2:48pm
Excellent post, Sue!!

Nicotine is only ONE of somewhere around a hundred compounds in cigarettes. YUCK!!

christine


~christine~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 03-27-2003 - 2:50pm
You're still missing the fact that all of this talks about heavy smokers (over a pack a day) and about second-hand smoke. None of that is applicable to this. And no, a baby is *not* exposed to secondhand smoke if mom smokes outside. Yes, the smell clings to clothes and whatnot but it isn't *smoke*, and *smoke* is what carries all of the harmul things. Yes, most of the time I do wait 95 minutes to nurse him. I don't smoke enough for this really to be an issue. If he's hungry earlier I *do* have to make the decisiion to nurse or not, and usually the answer is *yes*.

Brook

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 03-27-2003 - 3:08pm
Studies are continuing to be done. If you want to fool yourself into thinking new evidence, new information will never be found based on years of previous search indicating the opposite, go ahead. But the FACT is they are discovering new things all the time about things that have been researched over, over, and over for years. And when we are talking about smoking & bfing, I stand where I do on my opinion.

Pro-Bfer? I'm pro-bfer for those who choose and can (medically indicated) do so. I'm also very much pro-ffer! I can EASILY put myself on the OTHER side of the issue. As I stated I'm a FFer due to medication necessity...however, I *do* know I'd be a FFer if there was no reason to keep me from bfing. I did research exclusively pumping a few years back when I thought I might be able to continue on b/p meds compatible w/bm. So your question is actually VOID for *me* personally...I would FF'd, if not by meds, by CHOICE!







Avatar for cl_sunny_side_up
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Thu, 03-27-2003 - 3:25pm
<<<"Even there, the smoke can linger in the air for hours, even days, if it was absorbed by the towels and the curtains. ANY FABRIC, especially drapery and upholstery, WILL ABSORB SMOKE and retain the smell.">>>


<<"Contamination and odors are immediately created by such elements in tobacco smoke as ammonia and pyridine. Pyridine is a strong irritant that is produced when nicotine burns. The presence of a minute amount in the air produces distinctly unpleasant odors. The contamination is so intense that when someone smokes in an air-conditioned environment, the air-conditioning demands can jump as much as 600 percent to control odor. Another intriguing finding from air-conditioning research is that the human body attracts tobacco smoke. Burning tobacco smoke creates a high electrical potential, whereas the water-filled human body has a low one. The smoke in a room gravitates and clings to people in much the same way as iron filings are drawn to a magnet. And the odors linger on. Chemicals in tobacco smoke called aldehydes and ketones supply the penetrating smell, while the tars hold them to your skin and your clothes. But the smoker is not sensitive to the smell because of the destructive effects of smoke on the inner lining of his or her nose.">>>


<<"Besides NICOTINE, cigarette smoke consists of more than 4,700 chemical compounds, including cardiac poisons, cancer causing agents, and industrial solvents, which cause heart disease, strokes, pulmonary/respiratory diseases, cancer, and birth defects. Lung cancer and heart disease, once considered primarily men's diseases, increased sharply in women as more began smoking. Inhaling the hot toxic fumes from burning TOBACCO burns the linings of the air passages and reduces the smoker's ability to fight off disease. The large particles in smoke form a corrosive tar containing many poisonous chemicals. This tar collects in the smoker's lungs, exposing the smoker to these dangerous chemicals, a pregnant woman who smokes passes the toxic chemicals she takes into the developing fetus, where the chemicals can cause a spontaneous abortion or can cause the baby to have lower birth weight or birth defects.">>


Uck....I can't go on with this pulling links aout cigarettes......it is absolutely disgusting. Why anyone would choose to inhale such garbage is beyond me. Let alon exposing their baby to it.

christine






~christine~

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