"Proud Formula Feeder"?
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| Thu, 12-14-2006 - 8:27pm |
In my playgroup, I've noticed some members have a blinkie I haven't seen before: "Proud Formula Feeder". In the past, I've seen the "Formula Feeding Mom" and "It's formula, not rat poison", but this new one struck me as odd. I can understand simply stating that you formula feed or saying that formula isn't rat poison (because it isn't), but I've been trying to figure out just why someone would be "proud" to FF.
While I don't think that women should necessarily feel guilty about not BF, I don't get what about FF there is to be proud about. Most (or maybe even all) of the women with said blinkie acknowledge that breastmilk is better, so why would they be proud to feed their babies something they know is substandard, even if they couldn't BF and FF was their only choice? What do you ladies think? Is/should there be such a thing as FF pride?



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I notice you put inability in quotes, interesting. Do you assume that no such "inability" could ever really exist? Failure to succeed equals not trying hard enough?
BTW - for the second time, condensed milk is not the same as evaporated milk. Take a trip to the grocery store and see for yourself why don't ya. Of course I know - it really doesn't matter to you.
Please do not assume you know me. And do not put words into my mouth, er, post.
I put inability into quotes, because a mother who puts the baby to the breast a total of two times has no idea if such an inability even exists. Did you read what I wrote or just latch on to the word and jump to a conclusion?
Failure to succeed *can* equal not trying, it can equal lack of support and lack of knowledgeable people around to consult with, it can equal following bad advise given by ignorant professionals and it can equal doing everything possible under the sun and still wind up having to supplement with formula. Without additional information, there is no way to tell why there was a failure to succeed.
And no way to offer guidance to improve the chances of success in the future. Either for the particular parent or someone the parent knows and can now help with similar problems.
This bit about condensed vs evaporated milk is the first at me, and you're right. It doesn't matter to me. It was a very long time ago and I didn't feed it to my baby. Thank goodness we have formula now, instead of that!
Now if I start baking pumpkin pies again, you'd better believe I'd care! :o)
ilve2read
et remove exclamation marks, first two sentences.
Edited 12/23/2006 10:52 am ET by ilve2read
I stumbled upon this today and posted it here and on the BFing Ad page. Hope everyone is having a good weekend.
>>Nursing and the Parent Child Relationship by Keren Epstein Gilboa
Guiding Principles:
1) Language should reflect breastfeeding as the term of reference. Language should indicate that breastfeeding is a normal physiological and psychological activity integral to human development.
2) Be aware of the effects of a predominantly non-breastfeeding environment on language and make an effort to change non-breastfeeding-supportive language.
1) Do not call breastmilk substitutes by names that promote the marketing of these products. This can interfere with optimal internalization of nursing as the norm. For example, the term “formula” wrongly describes artificial baby milk as a scientific and perfect product. Also, demonstrate how the brand names of products are part of how they are marketed.
2) Do not use measurements of quantity to assess nursing. For example, do not teach families to base nursing decisions on weight or time. Instead, help parents recognize infant feeding cues and suckling styles.
* Do not use superlatives to describe nursing. For example, refrain from referring to nursing as “ideal,” but as “normal.” Breastfeeding should be the norm, not better than the norm.
* Do not speak of breastfeeding as a feeding “choice”. The use of the word “choice” indicates that nursing is equivalent to another product. Breastfeeding is a unique physiological and psychological event.
* Let go of the misconception that guilt may be caused by using accurate language to explain nursing. Guilt is a human emotion owned by the bearer and stems from internal processes, not by discussions with others.<<
http://www.infactcanada.ca/FactSheets.htm
From reading your posts, I understand that you believe that the breastfeeding community is nothing short of women hating zealots, but they are not. Questioning her experience is not an attack on HER. Most of the women here were much like her at one point.
What is unfortunate is that most women do attempt to breastfeed and most women fail. What exactly are YOU doing to change that? Most playgroups are FULL of women just like this poster who, after a series of problems, began to use formula and believe that there was something wrong with their body that made breastfeeding not work. Who benefits when women turn to formula, believing their bodies “failed” them? The baby doesn't. The mother doesn't. Society doesn't. But formula companies surely do. Formula companies love the "don't make the mother feel guilty" bandwagon. Knowledge is not about guilt. It's about choices.
So while you doggedly defend her choice to formula feed with out question, you never examine whether she was given the choice to breastfeed. It is not about her failure, it's about society failing HER. Plugged ducts, sore nipples = poor transfer
(likely due to a bad latch, there are those evil words again) which would lead to poor weight gain and with out the proper help, formula. Why did she not get the proper help is the question.
Yes, there are women who DO get help, and they still are not able to breastfeed. We have had this discussion on here several times, all of us are susceptible to having to make less than ideal choices. When we tell mothers that they “can do this” it isn’t a judgment call on what they should do, it’s an option. It’s not saying she is less of a mother if she doesn’t do it. It may not even be something the women HERE are willing to do. But we are not here to tell mother’s what they should do, only what they could do if they are determined to make breastfeeding work.
Aside from that, this mother may learn what exactly made breastfeeding fail for her, and from that she may be able to help prevent other women from following the same paths. How is that a bad thing?
>>From reading your posts, I understand that you believe that the breastfeeding community is nothing short of women hating zealots...<<
FWIW, I've enjoyed this thread very much and really appreciate the fresh perspective that Flag has added. Rather than thinking of the BF community as zealots, she seems to be able to see both sides. As we all know, we're so used to the old horse, she's clarified for me the other side. As an on the fence poster I think it's a bit much to question what she's done to help others. That said, I like to think that by helping me understand where others are coming from, she has helped others.
Welcome to the board, Flag.
And Missamae, you make a clear point that the objective is not to blame the women, but to blame the system and take action to improve it.
Hope your all enjoying the debate and not stressing too much over this weekend.
>>put inability into quotes, because a mother who puts the baby to the breast a total of two times has no idea if such an inability even exists. Did you read what I wrote or just latch on to the word and jump to a conclusion?<<
I read what she said and saw that she tried for 7 weeks, if I assumed anything it was that her baby was hungry more than twice in those 7 wweks :)
And yes, I know there are some people who don't give it an honest effort, but as I asked someone alse, who are any of us to judge what "trying hard enough" constitutes?
First, I don't believe *all* bfers are radical in their perspective, only a few. I *do* think those few tend to have an impact (a major impact - fair or not) on how the rest of society views bfers. I only contend that we need to proceed with extreme caution. Be wary of jumping the gun when talking to new mothers having difficulties. I have seen a question posted here that startles me (this was an earlier post - not from you). That question was - "what, do you want someone to tell you it's okay to quit if you have trouble?" That scares me because I think women who are having difficulties should be helped - not judged. They must feel bad enough about not being able to do something that is so "normal" and "natural". But then for other women, their peers at that, to question their motives for complaining, that's gottamake them feel about 3" tall. When attitudes like that one exist, I wonder how many women don't get help - not because myself or formula companies don't question their choice, but because their peers question it a little too much.
There is nothing wrong with women giving each other advice on parenting, be it feeding or whatever else comes up, but this particular woman was not asking for advice - she was giving her opinion as to why someone might claim to be "proud" of ffing, which is exactly what I have been doing.
"I have seen a question posted here that startles me (this was an earlier post - not from you). That question was - 'what, do you want someone to tell you it's okay to quit if you have trouble?'"
While I haven't ever seen anyone post this question, I have wanted to post it myself. It seems to me that some women post about their bf problems because they DO want someone to do the "it's ok, you did your best, what's important is a happy mommy" dance. They don't want advice at all about fixing the problems.
When you spend a considerable amount of your time trying to help women deal with bf problems and your responses fall on deaf ears, you can get to the point of wanting to post that question. Well, at least I have. When I see a post about bf problems, I try to decide whether I'm wasting my time looking up information and posting it. It would be so much easier if I could just ask if that person only wants permission to quit bf! There are loads of people that are more than happy to give it.
I think a lot of the posts about problems on my playgroup have been nothing more than a call for permission. If a person *really* wants to solve bf problems, she'll post on a board specifically dealing with bf where there are tons of knowledgeable people waiting to help. Or she'll find someone IRL to help her. But a single post on a playgroup, IMHO, isn't a serious cry for help. It's only "evidence" that the person "tried her hardest" to get help.
RPS
YES!!!! I've had this happen more times than I can begin to count!!! It gets soooo frustrating and annoying!!! I know that I spend a lot of time posting and making sure I get the info right and I know others do the exact same thing. It's a huge slap in the face when the person who first posts comes back all mad and huffy that we dared to actually try and HELP her with the problem she initially posted about!!! Sorry but if you don't want my freaking help then say so in the first post before I waste a lot of my time giving you that help. Time that I could be spending helping someone who does want to succeed. I'm also not your free replacement for real life help. If I or others tell you that you need to see an IBCLC or LLL leader or someone similarly qualified IRL then don't keep coming back asking the same thing and saying that you haven't bothered to do so. The boards that I most often post on we are there to support you and help you succeed at BFing, not to pat you on the head, tell you all will be well and there's nothing wrong whatsoever with quitting and giving formula. If you want that stick to more mainstream boards and/or the EC's and PG's, don't come to a support board specifically for BFing and expect us to not help you and to continue to throw out suggestions and ideas. I will NOT say it's alright, go ahead and switch. I WILL do all I can to get you the information you need to help you succeed.
-jeanine
>>Sorry but if you don't want my freaking help then say so in the first post before I waste a lot of my time giving you that help. Time that I could be spending helping someone who does want to succeed. I'm also not your free replacement for real life help. If I or others tell you that you need to see an IBCLC or LLL leader or someone similarly qualified IRL then don't keep coming back asking the same thing and saying that you haven't bothered to do so.<<
Just out of curiosity, seeing as I am going to be nursing my first child here in a few weeks, how much does "real life help" cost? Does insurance cover any of this cost? And of course, did it occur to you that the women who are so frustrating because they don't "want your freaking help" may not be able to afford to see an IBCLC or to join LLL? Maybe it's financial, not a simple lack of dedication.
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