"Proud Formula Feeder"?

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Registered: 06-23-2004
"Proud Formula Feeder"?
1054
Thu, 12-14-2006 - 8:27pm

In my playgroup, I've noticed some members have a blinkie I haven't seen before: "Proud Formula Feeder". In the past, I've seen the "Formula Feeding Mom" and "It's formula, not rat poison", but this new one struck me as odd. I can understand simply stating that you formula feed or saying that formula isn't rat poison (because it isn't), but I've been trying to figure out just why someone would be "proud" to FF.

While I don't think that women should necessarily feel guilty about not BF, I don't get what about FF there is to be proud about. Most (or maybe even all) of the women with said blinkie acknowledge that breastmilk is better, so why would they be proud to feed their babies something they know is substandard, even if they couldn't BF and FF was their only choice? What do you ladies think? Is/should there be such a thing as FF pride?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2001
Mon, 01-15-2007 - 10:37am

<>


I thought of that when I read it. I sure wouldn't feel guilt. I'd feel awful for those who didn't survive, I'd feel a bit shell shocked myself, but I sure wouldn't feel responsible in any way.


<<1. Well, you should have at least *tried* to land the plane. Or


2. Why weren't you paying more attention to what the pilot was doing? Or


3. Why didn't you radio for help?>>


I might expect those questions if I went to a "Plane Crash Survivors" debate board! LOL If so, I would have no reason to get angry with anyone who asked me any questions. That's what gets me on this board. People come here of their own free will, and get mad at US for trying to get where they are coming from. As far as debate boards go, yeah it may get heated at times, but for the most part this is a very, very compassionate group of women. It just speaks to the extreme sensitivity of the subject that people continue to blame the BF advocates for a feeling that they themselves own.

Mary



Mom to Kevin 11/4/03



You can hate me, but do it because you know me, not because I’m a member of a group. Anyways, people aren’t grapes --- you can’t weigh them in a bunch, but I guess it’s easier than dealing with people as individuals. There, I’ve solved the riddle of prejudice: it saves time.



Rita Mae Brown, US author and social activist

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2001
Mon, 01-15-2007 - 10:41am
O/T but in the spirit of reaching that big number, I like your siggy! Your kids are adorable. :-)

Mary



Mom to Kevin 11/4/03



You can hate me, but do it because you know me, not because I’m a member of a group. Anyways, people aren’t grapes --- you can’t weigh them in a bunch, but I guess it’s easier than dealing with people as individuals. There, I’ve solved the riddle of prejudice: it saves time.



Rita Mae Brown, US author and social activist

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 01-15-2007 - 10:48am

Hey Cathie, nice new pics there! :-)

Fio

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 01-15-2007 - 12:09pm
Thank you Mary and Fio!

Cathie

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-12-2006
Mon, 01-15-2007 - 11:37pm

"Yes, I feel guilty. I would second guess myself to no end and haunt myself with thoughts of how I could have done it differently. Not saying that's rational, though."

The 'shoulda, coulda, woulda's' sound more like regret to me than guilt. See, to me guilt implies a few things, namely control over the situation, responsibility for what went wrong in the first place, and knowledge/power about how to fix things. Going through it in one's mind wondering how it could have turned out differently could be construed as guilt, but when you boil it down, wouldn't you *know* that you weren't responsible and did not have the expertise to land the plane? Is it really guilt in that case?

As far as Wiessinger stereotyping women as automatically feeling guilty over anything and everything that goes wrong, I think that's a crock. Sure, anyone in that situation would feel grief, and may go over it again and again trying to figure out how they could have done something differently, but to automatically assume blame over something that one had little to no control over is irrational and I don't think all women are like that. At least I *hope* not all women are like that. Like I said, if it were me, it wouldn't be hard to place that self-blame into my head, considering the nature of the scenario. I would be in a particularly vulnerable state and it wouldn't be hard to get me to accept blame, *even if* rationally I knew there was nothing I could have done. But to me that is different than this automatic self-blame that Weissinger suggests.

As for the blurb from Newman, one point I wholeheartedly agree with was :

"It is an argument which deflects attention from the lack of knowledge and understanding of most health professionals about breastfeeding. This allows them not to feel guilty for their ignorance of how to help women overcome difficulties with breastfeeding, which could have been overcome and usually which could have been prevented in the first place if mothers were not so undermined in their attempts to breastfeed."

And as you pointed out Weissinger gets into that later in the article.

What I wonder about is the *effectiveness* of accusatory language when dealing with women who tried and failed or who never tried at all. Does that help or hinder the cause?

I gather from your post that you don't believe that a person can make someone else feel guilty when, if left to their own devices, they otherwise wouldn't? I ask again because while you pasted from many other articles, I wanted to hear the opinions of the women *here*, not the so-called experts ;).

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-12-2006
Mon, 01-15-2007 - 11:56pm

"If they hadn't thought abotu it or known about it, how could they have made a better choice. Guilt is feeling bad about making a choice that you should have known or done better. Regret is feeling bad because you wish you had known something."

That I can agree with. What I wonder is that if someone already feels this regret (which undeniably would be felt after the kind of accident described), would it be so hard to push it over the edge to guilt?

Maybe the people making the comments aren't responsible for what they are saying (although I don't agree with that entirely) or the emotions their speeches invoke. My point in paralleling the two was kind of to point out the similarities. New mothers (esp 1st time mothers) are in a pretty vulnerable state of mind and are more susceptible to being swayed by what others have to say, there may have been an element of panic ('baby's not eating/gaining enough' is a scary thought to most and without reassurance could cause a certain amount of panic) in their decision-making process, and when you add in a lack of knowledge about *who* to contact for help and when (the whole radioing for help thing) it seems easy enough to make a woman feel guilty when she really shouldn't. Regret yes, guilt no.

Now, you said it yourself : "Well, someone who has never flown a plane probably WOULD crash, regardless of whether or not they tried." So I wonder, is it right to take an accusatory tone with a woman for trying and failing, or not trying at all, or should the focus be laid directly on those who failed to provide her with help/information in the first place? You grasp that guilt and regret are different things. I just think they are close enough that it doesn't take a whole lot to cross over. I think there can be a pretty fine line between 'the facts' and a guilt-trip - thoughts?


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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-12-2006
Tue, 01-16-2007 - 12:14am

"I thought of that when I read it. I sure wouldn't feel guilt. I'd feel awful for those who didn't survive, I'd feel a bit shell shocked myself, but I sure wouldn't feel responsible in any way."

My reaction exactly.

"I might expect those questions if I went to a "Plane Crash Survivors" debate board!"

ROFL :)

"That's what gets me on this board. People come here of their own free will, and get mad at US for trying to get where they are coming from. As far as debate boards go, yeah it may get heated at times, but for the most part this is a very, very compassionate group of women. It just speaks to the extreme sensitivity of the subject that people continue to blame the BF advocates for a feeling that they themselves own."

You don't have to tell me you ladies are compassionate. I may take the unpopular side an awful lot, but no one here has made me feel like I shouldn't/can't come back, and certainly haven't made me feel insulted or unwelcome or anything like that. (obviously - I'm still here :) )

As far as blaming bfing advocates for feelings ffers "own", I don't necessarily agree. We all seem to agree that there is not nearly enough info/support out there, but we seem to blame women when they don't seek out that info/support that we are so quick to say is lacking in the first place. I guess I was wondering which is it? Yes, parents should be responsible for finding info/support on their own, but if half of what they find tells them that 'formula is fine' then what? How can we blame them for making a 'wrong' decision when they never had the info in the first place? Yes, it's a debate board and everyone should expect a certain amount of passion on both sides, but we are debating things that occur on other boards and IRL. I'm assuming mothers are faced with accusatory questions/comments elsewhere. Am I safe in assuming that you take the position that no one can make someone feel guilty if they don't already feel that way, even if they are already in a state of grief or regret?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
Tue, 01-16-2007 - 12:40am

Good post!

In the plane crash scenario, my initial feelings were that I would not feel guilty. I agree with you that I dont feel it is particlarly women who "feel more guilt" but rather society "calls them" into question about it than men, especially in parenting. The # one influence in the choice to bf is the dad's support (or lack of) but we don't question men when their children are FFed since it's "mom's decision".

Studies do show that women are more likely to second guess themselves (likely a social conditioning) and rely on others to confirm their decisions. I also find that women are generally more educated on the issue, which may mean that she is more likely to experience guilt if she "knows" better.

No one can "make" any one feel anything. My reaction to another's action is completely (or sould be) in my control.

As a FFer who "felt guilty" I can assure you that it was me. Sure, other people said rude remarks but as a mom who also homebirths, I have heard countless times that my child will die if I am not in the hospital, even the ACOG says this! (a little more dire than ear infections and respitory illnesses wouldn't you think?) The later can irritate me and I even get angry, but not guilty. I KNOW that homebirth is safe for me and my family. I "felt guilty" for FFing because I knew my child should have gotten breastmilk and I knew that I GAVE UP. Now that I know more about breastfeeding, I have little guilt because I realize I was given a lot of bad information and was lucky that I was able to keep BFing as long as I did. I also feel no guilt about my decisio to use formula with two of my children because I knew that by the point I went to use it, there was no other options. (My first I mismanaged BFing which led to poor supply and FTT, my second I was PG again and my milk began drying up).

So to answer your question, I would probably be angry with people who said some of those things because I had been through a traumatic experience, but not guilty (well except for radioing for help, I am capable of that and if I froze, I would probably never forgive myself). I can see your point about how the language can turn some people off but unlike plane crashes, people fail at BFing more often than not. If 95% of pilots had heart attacks on flights, I would expect that co pilots would always be expected to know how to land the plane, not saying it's the copilots choice to learn how to.

Melissa

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-12-2006
Tue, 01-16-2007 - 12:56am

"In the plane crash scenario, my initial feelings were that I would not feel guilty. I agree with you that I dont feel it is particlarly women who "feel more guilt" but rather society "calls them" into question about it than men, especially in parenting. The # one influence in the choice to bf is the dad's support (or lack of) but we don't question men when their children are FFed since it's "mom's decision".

Studies do show that women are more likely to second guess themselves (likely a social conditioning) and rely on others to confirm their decisions. I also find that women are generally more educated on the issue, which may mean that she is more likely to experience guilt if she "knows" better."

Excellent points. I agree that women are, for whatever reason, held more responsible by others, but that doesn't automatically mean we 'feel more guilt'.

"As a FFer who "felt guilty" I can assure you that it was me. Sure, other people said rude remarks but as a mom who also homebirths, I have heard countless times that my child will die if I am not in the hospital, even the ACOG says this! (a little more dire than ear infections and respitory illnesses wouldn't you think?) The later can irritate me and I even get angry, but not guilty. I KNOW that homebirth is safe for me and my family. I "felt guilty" for FFing because I knew my child should have gotten breastmilk and I knew that I GAVE UP. Now that I know more about breastfeeding, I have little guilt because I realize I was given a lot of bad information and was lucky that I was able to keep BFing as long as I did. I also feel no guilt about my decisio to use formula with two of my children because I knew that by the point I went to use it, there was no other options. (My first I mismanaged BFing which led to poor supply and FTT, my second I was PG again and my milk began drying up).

So to answer your question, I would probably be angry with people who said some of those things because I had been through a traumatic experience, but not guilty (well except for radioing for help, I am capable of that and if I froze, I would probably never forgive myself). I can see your point about how the language can turn some people off but unlike plane crashes, people fail at BFing more often than not. If 95% of pilots had heart attacks on flights, I would expect that co pilots would always be expected to know how to land the plane, not saying it's the copilots choice to learn how to."

I guess you demonstrate my point to an extent. You "knew" you child should have gotten breastmilk and felt guilty for "giving up". IMHO that is different than feeling guilty when one doesn't have the information *in the first place*. When you got more info, you realized the info you had was bad and then felt a lot less guilt about it, since (I assume) you saw where the blame should have been placed all along (health care professionals, etc). Which I find ironic, and perhaps explains why bfing advocates staunchly defend confronting ffing women. It's funny really. I wondered if it was possible to make a woman feel guilty (assuming she did not feel guilty in the first place) and basically what you are saying is that it is possible to make a woman feel *not* or *less* guilty (assuming she did feel guilty in the first place). So, I guess I'm assuming it can work both ways. Providing information has the potential to alleviate guilt or inspire it, depending on the situation.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
Tue, 01-16-2007 - 1:05am

<>

I 100% agree. The issue is, how do we get the information out there? PSA ads (which were watered down from their original content due to lobbying by formula companies) that try to change the way we word risks vs benefits have caused an uproar. Politicians have turned over bills that would not allow hospitals to hand out formula "gift bags" to expectant moms. Countries w/ only baby friendly hospitals (which expect that moms are BFing and do not accept formula donations, etc) BFing rates went up dramatically. America wanted no part of it. They do not want breastfeeding policies because it reduces profit (instead, lets hurt children...)

The "breast is best" has been around since I was a child and formula feeding has not dramatically changed.

I don't blame women, I blame capitalism. There is no $$ made in breastmilk.

Melissa (who is in a bit of a defeatist mood)

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