We know better

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2002
We know better
64
Sat, 03-09-2013 - 10:04am

Yet another mother who tried desperately to breastfeed, had troubles and eventually quit.  Twice ~ with her first child and again with her second child.  Is anyone in a position to say yet again this is another mom who didn't try hard enough, and we know better?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/the-purple-fig/women-struggling-to-breastfeed_b_2820088.html ("Breastfeeding Sucks")

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2010
Mon, 03-11-2013 - 9:51pm

misstrygg wrote:
<p>I am utterly happy I live in a country where we arent allowed to leave hospital until we  have one sucessful nursing or  found out why we cant.  Formula isnt a choice here, it is the last option.</p>

Despite my anger at the absolutely terrible breastfeeding support provided by my hospital, at least I can be happy that I live in a country where I am "allowed" to decide not to use my own breasts to feed my baby without having to demonstrate to some third party why I "can't." 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2007
Mon, 03-11-2013 - 11:43pm

I know my situation is a little different but I DID breastfeed my 2 children. However, I was unable to produce enough milk to just breastfeed them despite doing EVERYTHING to up my milk production. With my first I exclusively breast fed for 4 months but she was soooo slow to gain weight and then eventually stopped (other wise healthy and happy baby)...my doctor HUMILIATED me to the point where I would weigh her on the scales at grocery stores...well I soon switched doctors who told me to supplement with formula which helped a lot! 

It was just amazing, the ammount of dirty looks I would get when bottle feeding my daugher, even comments from mothers who only breast fed. I DID breast feed! And didn't even need that much formula...anyway, all I'm saying is that every situation is unique!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2007
Mon, 03-11-2013 - 11:43pm

I know my situation is a little different but I DID breastfeed my 2 children. However, I was unable to produce enough milk to just breastfeed them despite doing EVERYTHING to up my milk production. With my first I exclusively breast fed for 4 months but she was soooo slow to gain weight and then eventually stopped (other wise healthy and happy baby)...my doctor HUMILIATED me to the point where I would weigh her on the scales at grocery stores...well I soon switched doctors who told me to supplement with formula which helped a lot! 

It was just amazing, the ammount of dirty looks I would get when bottle feeding my daugher, even comments from mothers who only breast fed. I DID breast feed! And didn't even need that much formula...anyway, all I'm saying is that every situation is unique!

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Tue, 03-12-2013 - 8:10am

>>I can be happy that I live in a country where I am "allowed" to decide not to use my own breasts to feed my baby without having to demonstrate to some third party why I "can't." <<

That seems silly. It implies that there are places where mothers have to justify their decision to use formula to others. Where on earth do such places exist? Who wants such places to exist? Why create the illusion that they do?

IMO, it's yet another strawman. "Lactivists think mothers should have to make all kinds of sacrifices in order to breastfeed. If they don't they should have to explain themselve and be made to feel guilty. Therefore Lactivists are bad and should be ignored."

The reality is that in a Baby Friendly Hospital a mother who asks for formula because she does not want to breastfeed gets formula. Any questioning of that is related to making sure she isn't resorting to formula because her breastfeeding efforts are not working out. In the latter case, more breastfeeding support would be provided. IOW, the questioning is a reflection on the staff and their ability to provide breastfeeding support, not a reflection on the mother and/or her efforts.

I can certainly see how the questioning could be construed differently. After all, articles like this one abound. Comments about access to formula being threatened abound. Comments about mothers being judged abound.

Nobody is suggesting that mothers should feel guilty. No one is suggesting not having access to formula. It is about having equal access to quality lactation care. It is a terrible disservice to postpartum mothers to imply otherwise.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2010
Tue, 03-12-2013 - 9:24am

Jessica wrote: "I can be happy that I live in a country where I am "allowed" to decide not to use my own breasts to feed my baby without having to demonstrate to some third party why I 'can't.'"

Nispulla wrote: "That seems silly. It implies that there are places where mothers have to justify their decision to use formula to others. Where on earth do such places exist? Who wants such places to exist? Why create the illusion that they do?"

Did you not read the Misstrygg post I was replying to (and quoted)?  Misstrygg's entire post reads:

"I am utterly happy I live in a country where we arent allowed to leave hospital until we  have one sucessful nursing or  found out why we cant.  Formula isnt a choice here, it is the last option."  (emphasis added by me)

So, I guess the answers to your questions are as follows:

1.  Where on earth do places exist "where mothers have to justify their decision to use formula to others"?

Apparently, the country wherever Misstrygg lives.  I don't know where that is.

2.   Who wants such places to exist?

Misstrygg, and you (you said "ITA" to her post), and probably many other people as well if it's actually the policy in an entire country.

3.  Why create the illustion that they do?

You'd have to ask Misstrygg, since she's the one who brought up such a place.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2002
Tue, 03-12-2013 - 11:19am

jessica765 wrote:
Despite my anger at the absolutely terrible breastfeeding support provided by my hospital, at least I can be happy that I live in a country where I am "allowed" to decide not to use my own breasts to feed my baby without having to demonstrate to some third party why I "can't."

Sorry about the terrible breastfeeding support.  I had an almost opposite experience.  The nurses encouraged bf'ing, gave help if I needed it.  But their policy was ~ Mom wants to breastfeed, then We wash our hands of her baby and are no longer obligated to help. In other words, if you just came from a c-section or a difficult delivery and told the staff you choose to bfeed over formula feeding, you no longer got a break.  You couldn't relax and recover for a minute. The baby was to room with Mom until Mom was discharged from the hospital.  I couldn't nap if the baby cried; I had to change all diapers; I awoke thru the night.  I thought that was the wrong way to handle *my* recovery from c-sections. 

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2002
Tue, 03-12-2013 - 11:30am

nisupulla wrote:
<p>&gt;&gt;I can be happy that I live in a country where I am "allowed" to decide not to use my own breasts to feed my baby without having to demonstrate to some third party why I "can't." &lt;&lt;</p><p>That seems silly. It implies that there are places where mothers have to justify their decision to use formula to others. Where on earth do such places exist? Who wants such places to exist? Why create the illusion that they do?</p><p>IMO, it's yet another strawman. "Lactivists think mothers should have to make all kinds of sacrifices in order to breastfeed. If they don't they should have to explain themselve and be made to feel guilty. Therefore Lactivists are bad and should be ignored."</p><p>The reality is that in a Baby Friendly Hospital a mother who asks for formula because she does not want to breastfeed gets formula. Any questioning of that is related to making sure she isn't resorting to formula because her breastfeeding efforts are not working out. In the latter case, more breastfeeding support would be provided. IOW, the questioning is a reflection on the staff and their ability to provide breastfeeding support, not a reflection on the mother and/or her efforts.</p><p>I can certainly see how the questioning could be construed differently. After all, articles like this one abound. Comments about access to formula being threatened abound. Comments about mothers being judged abound. </p><p>Nobody is suggesting that mothers should feel guilty. No one is suggesting not having access to formula. It is about having equal access to quality lactation care. It is a terrible disservice to postpartum mothers to imply otherwise.</p>

But, but, but, the Mom in the article got plenty of support.  So you're saying the only "quality lactation care" is the kind where every Mom leaves the hospital breastfeeding.  In the article, Mom and another "inmate" on the maternity ward got so much instruction about breastfeedint that they hid formula.  They simply wanted to formula feed, not breastfeed.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2002
Tue, 03-12-2013 - 11:33am

jessica765 wrote:
<p><em><strong>Jessica wrote</strong>: "I can be happy that I live in a country where I am "allowed" to decide not to use my own breasts to feed my baby without having to demonstrate to some third party why I 'can't.'"</em></p><p><em><strong>Nispulla wrote</strong>: "That seems silly. It implies that there are places where mothers have to justify their decision to use formula to others. Where on earth do such places exist? Who wants such places to exist? Why create the illusion that they do?"</em></p><div><div><div><p>Did you not read the Misstrygg post I was replying to (and quoted)?  Misstrygg's entire post reads:</p><p>"I am utterly happy I live in a country where <strong>we arent allowed to leave hospital until we  have one sucessful nursing or  found out why we cant</strong>.  <strong>Formula isnt a choice here</strong>, it is the last option."  (emphasis added by me)</p><p>So, I guess the answers to your questions are as follows:</p><p><strong>1.  Where on earth do places exist "where mothers have to justify their decision to use formula to others"?</strong></p><p>Apparently, the country wherever Misstrygg lives.  I don't know where that is.</p><p><strong>2.   Who wants such places to exist?</strong></p><p>Misstrygg, and you (you said "ITA" to her post), and probably many other people as well if it's actually the policy in an entire country.</p><p><strong>3.  Why create the illustion that they do?</strong></p><p>You'd have to ask Misstrygg, since she's the one who brought up such a place.</p><p> </p></div></div></div>

Well said.  ITA, Jessica.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Tue, 03-12-2013 - 1:10pm

Maybe MissTrygg will chime in, but you clearly read what she wrote differently than I did.

To paraphrase, I read that she lives in a country where you have to be successfully feeding the baby before you leave the hospital. If you are breastfeeding, you have the support you need. When there are breastfeeding challenges the first option is not to try formula, that is the last option. If you are formula feeding, it is not presented as an equivalent choice, it is presented as a breastmilk substitute.

Nothing is mentioned about third party judgments, formula needing to be hidden, or anything along those lines. You inferred them, maybe she impled them. Either way, they are not written on the page.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Tue, 03-12-2013 - 1:19pm

As I said I don't see how she got "support", if she felt like she couldn't feed the baby without hiding the formula. That makes no sense to me.

No - I don't think that "quality lactation care" is defined by whether or not the mom is breastfeeding when she leaves the hospital. I do not know why you inferred that.

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