We know better

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2002
We know better
64
Sat, 03-09-2013 - 10:04am

Yet another mother who tried desperately to breastfeed, had troubles and eventually quit.  Twice ~ with her first child and again with her second child.  Is anyone in a position to say yet again this is another mom who didn't try hard enough, and we know better?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/the-purple-fig/women-struggling-to-breastfeed_b_2820088.html ("Breastfeeding Sucks")

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-2004
Wed, 03-13-2013 - 11:33am

Sorry but I am sleeping when you are argueing.

The third party isnt a big meanie with a judge wigg walking around being evil.  It is a doctor, someone who is there to help you. When they have found out why you cant  breastfed you are sent home, if the  welfare of the child isnt in dangered. Then you get check ups until it works or not  and  they cost is like 10  dollar and after you paided 110 dollar, you pay for no more  doctors  visit the following 12 months period.  How ever all the hospital visit and doctors visit for the child is free of charge. A newborn will also have regular checkup, once a week for the first 1-3 months and then 14 days between, then once a month and the  every second months and then  I think it is 6 months inbetween.

A succesful nursing is the baby grabbing the tit  suckling,  the child  will by sucking correctly help you to produce milk, the first milk (unless you pump it away) is design to be extra fatty and rich  so the child can survive until you get your milk going.

 The hospital care is great, the food is good and free and the visit is  not expensive at all, I think it was  8 dollars per day and you have nurses and doctors checking you and the little one up. Yes, babies sleep with thier mum at my hospital, all to make it easier to breastfeed, every 2 hours as they need in the start.

I cant see how it is bad to  get  help and good support to do what  come natrually.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2010
Wed, 03-13-2013 - 12:21pm

"The third party isnt a big meanie with a judge wigg walking around being evil.  It is a doctor, someone who is there to help you."

My goodness, I would assume the person is not a big meannie with a judge wig walking around being evil.  I figured it would be a nurse, doctor, or lactation consultant.  Nearly all of those people are well-meaning, and most are kind (a few are probably less kind, because they're people with personalities and moods).  The point is that it's still a third party who's allowing or not allowing a woman to do something based on whether she is using her own body in a certain way or has a reason why she "can't.".

"I cant see how it is bad to  get  help and good support to do what  come natrually."

I agree.  But "good support" for breastfeeding is not not allowing women to do something unless they've done something else.  It's making sure they have the resources to do what they want to do. 

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-2004
Wed, 03-13-2013 - 1:50pm

And since we are not taught  to have a choice, for us it normality  MOST people  wants to breastfed , it seen as a normal part of   being a mother, nothing special or fantastic, it is normal here.

This is were we differ in our mindsets and cultures, what we see as help and support, you seams to see as invasion of privacy.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2010
Wed, 03-13-2013 - 2:25pm

"And since we are not taught  to have a choice, for us it normality  MOST people  wants to breastfed , it seen as a normal part of   being a mother, nothing special or fantastic, it is normal here."

Right now in the U.S., most people want to breastfeed (at least at first), and breastfeeding is viewed as normal/essential among certain subsets of women.  But breastfeeding is not supported by the culture at large or by institutions  (by maternity leave, well-educated medical personnel, positive attitudes toward nursing in public, etc.).  So it becomes something that many or most people think they should do but cannot do, which leads to all kinds of problems. 

"This is were we differ in our mindsets and cultures, what we see as help and support, you seams to see as invasion of privacy."

Yes.  My impression is that, in general, Americans place a particularly high value on privacy and individual rights as compared to people in some other countries.  I certainly view the policy you described as an invasion of privacy.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2002
Wed, 03-13-2013 - 5:58pm

While I agree with your very reasoned, well thought-out post, I can't tell you how upsetting I find this:

kevali2010 wrote:
My firstborn had an improper latch and it took weeks to correct it. I didn't give up or give in, even though there were plenty of people who told me that it was OK to give him formula. It was OK to give up, formula wasn't poison, it would be fine, I should stop being a martyr...Hey! I could write my own article about how guilty those people made ME feel!

A different debate perhaps.  But this was not about you.  It was about a baby going hungry for weeks, every single day, 24/7, never having a full belly.  I simply could not have allowed my child to endure that, no matter what the hazy studies say about antibodies.  I agree you were not a martyr.  The baby was.

Short of being on a diet, as an adult we don't allow ourselves to go hungry everday, every meal, for several weeks.  Why would anyone make a baby go thru that for weeks?  The mother in the article should be applauded.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Wed, 03-13-2013 - 9:16pm

I am an American and I place  a high value on privacy and individual rights! I don't see how providing breastfeeding support is a violation of privacy or rights.

OTOH, I do see NOT providing breastfeeding support and pushing infant formula as a violation of rights. It specifically violates the Baby's right to breastfeed. http://www.internationalbreastfeedingjournal.com/content/1/1/27

Giving infant formula equal footing with breastfeeding in hospitals is something the infant manufacturer's work hard to preserve. Here's a quote from momsfeedingfreedom aka the formula industry:

When the Decision is Personal and Private

No mom should have to justify or explain her choice of how she’ll feed her baby. Perhaps it’s been recommended that she not breastfeed because of an illness, medical condition, or medication that she must take. Maybe she just isn’t comfortable with the idea or resents people telling her what to do with her body. Whatever her reason, and frankly, it’s no one’s business, but a decision that she can make by herself or with her health care provider. And though many people might not agree with her decision, she too needs support and acceptance.

The big mean nurse that runs around forcing mothers to prove that are breastfeeding satisfactorily plays a critical role in the formula propaganda. Breastfeeding supporters are the enemy. Formula is the savior. It is unfortunate that more Americans can not see through the tripe.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-2004
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 4:07am

I am Swedish and I place a high value on privacy and indivdual rights too.  But I  also trust a person with higher education then I  when it comes to lactating advice, yes I trust my doctor to know what he or she is doing.

Also Babies do no starve when lacthing the wrong way and as long as they are growning and gaining they are healthy. A titfed baby will not gain as quickly as bottle fed one, but that is normal since  titfed babies dont over eat as bottle babies tend to do.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-08-2009
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 8:01am
Thardy, you are being unkind in your rush to assume that kevali's son was not properly nourished. There is nothing in her post to indicate that her child was going hungry. Nor do some people think it a kindness to fill up a baby's stomach with artificial milk.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2010
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 8:55am

Misstrygg wrote: I am Swedish and I place a high value on privacy and indivdual rights too.  But I  also trust a person with higher education then I  when it comes to lactating advice, yes I trust my doctor to know what he or she is doing.

I trust people with higher education on a particular topic to know what they are doing too.   In the U.S., for example, I'd trust an IBCLC (lactation consultant) to know what she is doing with respect to lactation (doctors usually don't).  That does not mean that I'd be ok with an IBCLC (or a doctor with lactation expertise) deciding whether I'm "allowed" to leave the hospital.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2010
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 9:11am

Nisupulla wrote: I am an American and I place  a high value on privacy and individual rights! I don't see how providing breastfeeding support is a violation of privacy or rights.

Providing most breastfeeding support (readily available IBCLCs, well-trained doctors and nurses, maternity leave, pumping accomodations at work, etc.) is obviously not a violation of privacy or rights.  Not allowing a woman to leave the hospital until she successfully nurses or has a reason why she can't nurse is, in my opinion.

. . .

Nisupulla wrote:  "The big mean nurse that runs around forcing mothers to prove that are breastfeeding satisfactorily plays a critical role in the formula propaganda. Breastfeeding supporters are the enemy. Formula is the savior. It is unfortunate that more Americans can not see through the tripe."

Aaaanndd, we're back to the Big Meannies argument again. 

Not every disagreement with every pro-breastfeeding measure is premised on the idea that lactivists and breastfeeding supporters are mean.  My problem with the policy Misstrygg described certainly is not.

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