We know better

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2002
We know better
64
Sat, 03-09-2013 - 10:04am

Yet another mother who tried desperately to breastfeed, had troubles and eventually quit.  Twice ~ with her first child and again with her second child.  Is anyone in a position to say yet again this is another mom who didn't try hard enough, and we know better?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/the-purple-fig/women-struggling-to-breastfeed_b_2820088.html ("Breastfeeding Sucks")

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-2004
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 5:18pm

You missunderstood me.

A mum can sign her self out of the hospital any time she chooses to, she can if she wants too, but the baby cant until its welfare is cared for. SO if you abandon your baby at  the hospital, surely even in the USA the  socialwelfare will give you a call.

It not a police of pushing it at people, it a  support system of doing what our  bodies what ment to do. And NO Socialwelfare will not come knocking at your door if you bottle feed, most people here see bottle feeding as a last resort.  

Life isnt easy, breastfeeding isnt easy but it is something we do.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2010
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 2:20pm

Nisupulla, You seem to be imagining that the debate between me and Misstrygg is something along the lines of this:

Misstrygg:  The policy in Sweden is that breastfeeding helpers are required to make sure that breastfeeding mothers get  the breastfeeding support they want/need before they leave the hospital. They also get breastfeeding support at home and access to additional affordable lactation care.

Me:  OMG THAT'S AWFUL!  SWEDEN IS FULL OF BIG MEANNIE LACTIVISTS GIVING DIRTY LOOKS TO FORMULA FEEDERS AND LOCKING UP THEIR FORMULA!!!!!! 

I get that it's easy to argue in favor of Misstrygg's position if this is the debate. But it's not.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-16-2010
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 2:15pm

Nisupulla wrote (in different posts): "As I have said there are no big meanies in Sweden forcing mothers to do anything and I think yours [thardy's] is the first post that adds threats of "social services" interference to the tripe."

I haven't seen yet any problems expressedd about the Swedish policy except for the imaginary justification to the a third party part. If that were not the case, I wouldn't have to bring up the fact that the formula industry WANTS people to believe that the imaginary justification to third parties.

Nisupulla, are you reading Misstrygg's posts?   She says

"I live in a country where we arent allowed to leave hospital until we  have one sucessful nursing or  found out why we cant."

"The third party isnt a big meanie with a judge wigg walking around being evil.  It is a doctor, someone who is there to help you"

"it all about the baby when it is born, if it can feed or not and it is not going home until  it has proven it can.  If you deciced to go, sure, the baby stay and social welfare will get call but you can go."

She acknowledged the existence of a "third party" (a doctor who is not evil and wants to help) who does not "allow" women to go home until the women either successfully nurses or it is "found out why" the woman "can't."  I have a problem with that.

She is the one who brought up "social welfare." 

We are not imagining those things.

You seem to be imagining that the debate between me and Misstrygg is something along the lines of this:

Misstrygg:  In Sweden, hospitals are required to provide breastfeeding moms with all of the support they need.  Of course, if a mom did want to feed formula, she would be free to do so without having to justify that decision to anyone.

Me:  THAT'S AWFUL!  SWEDEN IS FULL OF BIG MEANNIE LACTIVISTS GIVING DIRTY LOOKS TO FORMULA FEEDERS AND LOCKING UP THEIR FORMULA!!!!!! 

That's not it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-16-2010
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 1:31pm

I also find it ironic that the OP seems aghast at the idea of "we know better" than the woman in the article, yet she seems to know better how my child was faring because I was determined to breastfeed him exclusively. hmmmmmmm...

Kevali


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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-16-2010
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 1:23pm

thardy2001 wrote:
<p>While I agree with your very reasoned, well thought-out post, I can't tell you how upsetting I find this:</p><p><blockquote class="quote-msg quote-nest-1 odd"><div class="quote-author"><em class="placeholder">kevali2010</em> wrote:</div> My firstborn had an improper latch and <strong>it took <span style="text-decoration:underline">weeks</span> to correct</strong> it. <strong>I didn't give up or give in,</strong> even though there were plenty of people who told me that it was OK to give him formula. It was OK to give up, formula wasn't poison, it would be fine, <strong>I should stop being a martyr</strong>...Hey! I could write my own article about how guilty those people made ME feel! </blockquote></p><p>A different debate perhaps.  But this was not about you.  It was about a baby going hungry for weeks, every single day, 24/7, never having a full belly.  I simply could not have allowed my child to endure that, no matter what the hazy studies say about antibodies.  I agree you were not a martyr.  The baby was.</p><p>Short of being on a diet, as an adult we don't allow ourselves to go hungry everday, every meal, for several weeks.  Why would anyone make a baby go thru that for weeks?  The mother in the article should be applauded.</p>

Wow! I am so sorry that your interpretation of my post caused you to become upset! Don't worry your little head about it. You could not be more wrong.  :)

He was most definitely not hungry, believe me. He gained quite a bit of weight, steadily, from the time we left the hospital (and in the hospital, he only lost 5 oz--we were in there for 4 days); has been in the 95th %ile for weight (and height) ever since, give or take a %. A newborn who "goes hungry every day, every meal, for several weeks," will probably die. I'd ask if you really thought I would starve my own child, but I am headed out of town in about an hour, so I won't be around to read the sugary-snarky response.

I didn't "make" him "go thru that for weeks," I put *myself* through hell correcting his latch. I knew he was getting colostrum, but I was a new mom and all I knew was that it hurt like hell. At first I tried just changing position, but I was limited due to a C-section.

I know you don't really care about the details, but in case someone is reading that is genuinely wondering what the deal is: He was getting colostrum until my milk came in (the day we arrived home from hospital) and was doing quite well getting milk by suckling on the nipple without his mouth being open enough to encompass the entire areola.  That hurt ME like hell. Becoming engorged when my milk came in didn't help because now suddenly he had this hard basketball in front of his face where before there was a smallish, soft pillow. The improper latch caused bruising and cracked nipples, and as you may know the only way to keep the milk flowing is to nurse right through the pain. And my letdown was fierce, to make matters worse. Shocked him every time, poor thing.

Once he was latching on correctly *every time,* several weeks later, that was when the pain finally began to subside for me. I think he was about 6 weeks old the first time he nursed and I didn't have to grit my teeth. Then I remember thinking back to a line in "Girlfriend's Guide to Pregnancy" where she said "Breastfeeding feels really, really good." And I believed it, finally. He went on to nurse for a very long time, as has his 4 y/o sister who still nurses in the morning and at bedtime.

So, the mother in the article should be applauded, based on what you read in my post? Is it because you automatically assumed the worst about me, leading you to think she did something right where I failed? I'm sorry if you feel that way. I did what was right for my family, and she did what was right for hers. I don't applaud her any more than I expect applause. I got what I wanted from those hellish weeks; a very healthy child who never needed formula.

Kevali


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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 12:15pm

[quote=thardy2001]<p>This push in Sweden to force mom to at least try to breastfeed is the wrong policy, if it is indeed the policy as you say.  The baby going into the hands of Social Welfare. </p>

I don't think MissTrygg said anything of the sort. I think she said that the policy in Sweden is that breastfeeding helpers are required to make sure that breastfeeding mothers get  the breastfeeding support they want/need before they leave the hospital. They also get breastfeeding support at home and access to additional affordable lactation care.

As I have said there are no big meanies in Sweden forcing mothers to do anything and I think yours is the first post that adds threats of "social services" interference to the tripe.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2002
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 12:00pm

misstrygg wrote:
<p>So you  are the only one who knows what is best for your child?</p>

It is the rare situation when a mother/father team (ideally) do not know what is the best way to feed their infant.  It certainly happens.  Generally, the person who spends the most time with the child is also the most informed about how the infant/baby is eating.  This push in Sweden to force mom to at least try to breastfeed is the wrong policy, if it is indeed the policy as you say.  The baby going into the hands of Social Welfare. 

I've known moms discharged from US hospitals who were so determined to breastfeed, they did not know their infants were not getting enough food.  Or they just didn't care.  I'm not sure which.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 11:58am

I haven't seen yet any problems expressedd about the Swedish policy except for the imaginary justification to the a third party part. If that were not the case, I wouldn't have to bring up the fact that the formula industry WANTS people to believe that the imaginary justification to third parties.

I have provided an online source of the formula industry developing the myth of the third party/judgmental/anti-individual/bigmeanie. Where is your online evidence of a breastfeeding organization, policy or expert who supports a thirdparty/judmental/anti-individual/bigmeanie? If no such source exists, then I'll stick with what I believe now. While there are random rude people in all walks of life, Lactivists included, there are no breastfeeding organizations, policies, or experts who intend to undermine a mothers autonomy when it comes to feeding their infants.

Lactivists want to make sure that every mother who wants to breastfeed has the support and information that she needs in order to breastfeed.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2002
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 11:48am

misstrygg wrote:
<p>So the wellfare of the child isnt important to you as long as you get your will?</p><p>Yes, people see it like this,  it all about the baby when it is born, if it can feed or not and it is not going home until  it has proven it can.  If you deciced to go, sure, the baby stay and social welfare will get call but you can go.</p>

Are you putting us on, or is that really the policy in Sweden?  Why does the state have such a compelling interest in the baby being fed formula by the "lady" from Social Welfare?  Why is that preferable to the mother feeding the baby formula?

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 11:47am

jessica765 wrote:
<p>I'm the ultimate decider as to questions that involve my body and my child.  I make those decisions after consideration of advice from people who know more than I do about specific areas, as well as consideration of my own values and preferences. </p>

You state that as if you think you are exceptional on this board for having such a unique opinion. But the fact is that no one has expressed a differing opinion. I'd guess everyone who posts and the vast majority, if not all, or lurkers also agree with that opinion. There just is no debate on this point.

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