Who said "Formula is evil"?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-14-2003
Who said "Formula is evil"?
824
Mon, 11-03-2008 - 12:14pm

Ok, we need to get back to debating - so I typed "formula is evil" into Google & found most were saying,



~*~ Catherine, mom to three grown men - Jason, Michael & Joshua and Granma to Christopher & Leia.


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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Tue, 12-02-2008 - 10:34am

"All studies have an agenda, sorry. Who ever has the money pulls the strings."

Who makes the money from people choosing to breastfeed because studies show formula to be riskier?

Yes, it's important to follow the money trail, but where does it lead in THIS case?

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2008
Tue, 12-02-2008 - 10:35am

>>>I know you are feeling protective of Lee<<<

You know this? On what basis do you know my feelings? That is as hysterical as Lee being told to chill - why does anyone think they know another poster's feelings when they aren't stated by that poster? You are talking to strangers on the internet, you don't know their feelings unless they tell you. In this type of forum it is easy to misread emotion, especially when the emotion is something like "feeling protective of another poster."

I don't know about Lee, but that kind of creeps me out. It's not like Lee and I know each other personally or something. And LOL - not like Lee needs protection. She's got her trading card right there pointing a gun at everyone!

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"The key to good decision making is not knowledge. It is understanding."
Malcolm Gladwell Blink

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Tue, 12-02-2008 - 10:41am

"Another assumption is I just asked the doctor and went with what he said. I did not."

Please don't take this personally. Many times posters have come here claiming to "know all about it", yet careful questioning reveals huge, huge holes in that knowledge.

So, some here have learned to *ask* those questions. In part to help said poster see options for "next time", in part to just expand said posters knowledge base AND in part to share the knowledge with people who just happen to be reading the board RIGHT NOW and may not come back or stay.

You certainly have the right (and ability) to state that you choose not to discuss that aspect of your personal situation and thank others for understanding. Then skip over anything that addresses that aspect.

But since you are one of the rare ones who apparently DOES "know all about it", go for it! Or not. It's your choice.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-04-2004
Tue, 12-02-2008 - 10:42am

Well, you have been very defensive of her in several posts. "Protective" is the impression I have been getting too.

As far as people thinking they know someone else's feelings, do all the times you've accused others of making "assumptions" about you meds count? Just wondering, since you just did it to me a couple of posts ago...

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2008
Tue, 12-02-2008 - 10:43am

>>>Sorry, but I assumed nothing. I am sincerely happy to hear that doctors are using Hale in some places, because they certainly aren't doing it everywhere!<<<<

You know, with the drug in question it probably wasn't even necessary. It's not even questionable. I ended up getting copies of Hales pages for another drug which I did end up taking while bf'ing (against my rheumatologists advice). The LLL person sent me the page for this drug too, but it was like "duh, if you take this one you'll be done bf'ing" which I already knew, long before talking to her about it.

Some drugs doctors do know are harmful, even without looking at Hale. The one's widely known to cause serious problems will be listed as causing serious problems in Hale too. For this drug, I had to be off of it for months before I could even TTC. So it's not something that only came up after delivery. All of my drugs were discussed before I even considered going off birth control. I don't have a temporary problem that required medication, I have an immune disorder.

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"The key to good decision making is not knowledge. It is understanding."
Malcolm Gladwell Blink

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2001
Tue, 12-02-2008 - 10:45am

I just googled "formula gut flora"and got this:


http://massbfc.org/formula/bottle.html


Background


  • The gastrointestinal (GI) tract of a normal fetus is sterile
  • the type of delivery has an effect on the development of the intestinal microbiota

    • vaginally born infants are colonized with their mother's bacteria
    • cesarean born infants' initial exposure is more likely to environmental microbes from the air, other infants, and the nursing staff which serves as vectors for transfer
    • the primary gut flora in infants born by cesarean delivery may be disturbed for up to 6 months after birth (Gronlund et al, 1999)

  • babies at highest risk of colonization by undesirable microbes or when transfer from maternal sources cannot occur are cesarean-delivered babies, preterm infants, full term infants requiring intensive care, or infants separated from their mother

    • infants requiring intensive care acquire intestinal organisms slowly and the establishment of bifidobacterial flora is retarded
    • a delayed bacterial colonization of the gut with a limited number of bacterial species tends to be virulent
    • control and manipulation of the neonatal gut with human milk can be used as a strategy to prevent and treat intestinal diseases (Dai & Walker, 1999)

  • major ecological disturbances are observed in newborn infants treated with antimicrobial agents

    • one way of minimizing ecological disturbances in the NICU is to provide these babies with fresh breast milk (Zetterstrom et al, 1994)

  • breastfed and formula-fed infants have different gut flora

    • breastfed babies have a lower gut pH (acidic environment) of approximately 5.1-5.4 throughout the first six weeks that is dominated by bifidobacteria with reduced pathogenic (disease-causing) microbes such as E coli, bacteroides, clostridia, and streptococci
    • flora with a diet-dependent pattern is present from the 4th day of life with breast milk-fed guts showing a 47% bifidobacterium and formula-fed guts showing 15%. Enterococci prevail in formula-fed infants (Rubaltelli et al, 1998)
    • babies fed formula have a high gut pH of approximately 5.9-7.3 with a variety of putrefactive bacterial species
    • in infants fed breast milk and formula supplements the mean pH is approximately 5.7-6.0 during the first four weeks, falling to 5.45 by the sixth week
    • when formula supplements are given to breastfed babies during the first seven days of life, the production of a strongly acidic environment is delayed and its full potential may never be reached
    • breastfed infants who receive supplements develop gut flora and behavior like formula-fed infants

  • The neonatal GI tract undergoes rapid growth and maturational change following birth

    • Infants have a functionally immature and immunonaive gut at birth
    • Tight junctions of the GI mucosa take many weeks to mature and close the gut to whole proteins and pathogens
    • Intestinal permeability decreases faster in breastfed babies than in formula-fed infants (Catassi, et al, 1995)
    • Open junctions and immaturity play a role in the acquisition of NEC, diarrheal disease, and allergy
    • sIgA from colostrum and breast milk coats the gut, passively providing immunity during the time of reduced neonatal gut immune function
    • mothers' sIgA is antigen specific. The antibodies are targeted against pathogens in the baby's immediate surroundings
    • the mother synthesizes antibodies when she ingests, inhales, or otherwise comes in contact with a disease-causing microbe
    • these antibodies ignore useful bacteria normally found in the gut and ward off disease without causing inflammation

  • infant formula should not be given to a breastfed baby before gut closure occurs

    • once dietary supplementation begins, the bacterial profile of breastfed infants resembles that of formula-fed infants in which bifidobacteria are no longer dominant and the development of obligate anaerobic bacterial populations occurs (Mackie, Sghir, Gaskins, 1999)
    • relatively small amounts of formula supplementation of breastfed infants (one supplement per 24 hours) will result in shifts from a breastfed to a formula-fed gut flora pattern (Bullen, Tearle, Stewart, 1977)
    • the introduction of solid food to the breastfed infant causes a major perturbation in the gut ecosystem, with a rapid rise in the number of enterobacteria and enterococci, followed by a progressive colonization by bacteroides, clostridia, and anaerobic streptococci (Stark & Lee, 1982)
    • with the introduction of supplementary formula, the gut flora in a breastfed baby becomes almost indistinguishable from normal adult flora within 24 hours (Gerstley, Howell, Nagel, 1932)
    • if breast milk were again given exclusively, it would take 2-4 weeks for the intestinal environment to return again to a state favoring the gram-positive flora (Brown & Bosworth, 1922; Gerstley, Howell, Nagel, 1932)

  • in susceptible families, breastfed babies can be sensitized to cow's milk protein by the giving of just one bottle, (inadvertent supplementation, unnecessary supplementation, or planned supplements), in the newborn nursery during the first three days of life (Host, Husby, Osterballe, 1988; Host, 1991)

    • infants at high risk of developing atopic disease has been calculated at 37% if one parent has atopic disease, 62-85% if both parents are affected and dependant on whether the parents have similar or dissimilar clinical disease, and those infants showing elevated levels of IgE in cord blood irrespective of family history (Chandra, 2000)
    • in breastfed infants at risk, hypoallergenic formulas can be used to supplement breastfeeding; solid foods should not be introduced until 6 months of age, dairy products delayed until 1 year of age, and the mother should consider eliminating peanuts, tree nuts, cow's milk, eggs, and fish from her diet (Zieger, 1999; AAP, 2000)

  • in susceptible families, early exposure to cow's milk proteins can increase the risk of the infant or child developing insulin dependent diabetes mellitus (IDDM) (Mayer et al, 1988; Karjalainen, et al, 1992)

    • human insulin content in breast milk is significantly higher than bovine insulin in cow's milk; insulin content in infant formulas is extremely low to absent; insulin supports gut maturation
    • in animal models oral administration of human insulin stimulates the intestinal immune system generating active cellular mechanisms that suppress the development of autoimmune diabetes
    • the lack of human insulin in infant formulas may break the tolerance to insulin and lead to the development of type 1 diabetes (Vaarala et al, 1998)
    • the avoidance of cow's milk protein for the first several months of life may reduce the later development of IDDM or delay its onset in susceptible individuals (AAP, 1994)
    • infants who are exclusively breastfed for at least 4 months have a lower risk of seroconversion leading to beta-cell autoimmunity

      • short-term breastfeeding and the early introduction of cow's milk based infant formula predispose young children who are genetically susceptible to Type 1 diabetes to progressive signs of beta-cell autoimmunity (Kimpimaki et al, 2001)

    • sensitization and development of immune memory to cow's milk protein is the initial step in the etiology of IDDM (Kostraba, et al, 1993)

      • sensitization can occur with very early exposure to cow's milk before gut cellular tight junction closure
      • sensitization can occur with exposure to cow's milk during an infection-caused gastrointestinal alteration when the mucosal barrier is compromised allowing antigens to cross and initiate immune reactions
      • sensitization can occur if the presence of cow's milk protein in the gut damages the mucosal barrier, inflames the gut, destroys binding components of cellular junctions, or other early insult with cow's milk protein leads to sensitization (Savilahti, et al, 1993)



  • References

    American Academy of Pediatrics, Work Group on Cow's Milk Protein and Diabetes Mellitus. Infant feeding practices and their possible relationship to the etiology of diabetes mellitus. Pediatrics 1994; 94:752-754


    American Academy of Pediatrics, Committee on Nutrition. Hypoallergenic infant formulas. Pediatrics 2000; 106:346-349


    Brown EW, Bosworth AW. Studies of infant feeding VI. A bacteriological study of the feces and the food of normal babies receiving breast milk. Am J Dis Child 1922; 23:243


    Bullen CL, Tearle PV, Stewart MG. The effect of humanized milks and supplemented breast feeding on the faecal flora of infants. J Med Microbiol 1977; 10:403-413


    Catassi C, et al. Intestinal permeability changes during the first month: effect of natural versus artificial feeding. J Pediatr Gastroenterol Nutr 1995; 21:383-386


    Chandra RK. Food allergy and nutrition in early life: implications for later health. Proc Nutr Soc 2000; 59:273-277


    Dai D, Walker WA. Protective nutrients and bacterial colonization in the immature human gut. Adv Pediatr 1999; 46:353-382


    Gerstley JR, Howell KM, Nagel BR. Some factors influencing the fecal flora of infants. Am J Dis Child 1932; 43:555


    Gronlund MM, et al. Fecal microflora in healthy infants born by different methods of delivery: permanent changes in intestinal flora after cesarean delivery. J Pediatr Gastroenterol Nutr 1999; 28:19-25


    Host A, Husby S, Osterballe O. A prospective study of cow's milk allergy in exclusively breastfed infants. Acta Paediatr Scand 1988; 77:663-670


    Host A. Importance of the first meal on the development of cow's milk allergy and intolerance. Allergy Proc 1991; 10:227-232


    Karjalainen J, Martin JM, Knip M, et al. A bovine albumin peptide as a possible trigger of insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus. N Engl J Med 1992; 327:302-307


    Kimpimaki T, et al. Short-term exclusive breastfeeding predisposes young children with increased genetic risk of Type 1 diabetes to progressive beta-cell autoimmunity. Diabetologia 2001; 44:63-69


    Kostraba JN, Cruickshanks KJ, Lawler-Heavner J, et al. Early exposure to cow's milk and solid foods in infancy, genetic predisposition, and risk of IDDM. Diabetes 1993; 42:288-295


    Mackie RI, Sghir A, Gaskins HR. Developmental microbial ecology of the neonatal gastrointestinal tract. Am J Clin Nutr 1999; 69(Suppl):1035S-1045S


    Mayer EJ, Hamman RF, Gay EC, et al. Reduced risk of IDDM among breastfed children. The Colorado IDDM Registry. Diabetes 1988; 37:1625-1632


    Rubaltelli FF, et al. Intestinal flora in breast and bottle-fed infants. J Perinat Med 1998; 26:186-191


    Savilahti E, Tuomilehto J, Saukkonen TT, et al. Increased levels of cow's milk and b-lactoglobulin antibodies in young children with newly diagnosed IDDM. Diabetes Care 1993; 16:984-989


    Stark PL, Lee A. The microbial ecology of the large bowel of breastfed and formula-fed infants during the first year of life. J Med Microbiol 1982; 15:189-203


    Vaarala O, et al. Cow milk feeding induces antibodies to insulin in children - a link between cow milk and insulin-dependent mellitus? Scand J Immunol 1998; 47:131-135


    Zetterstrom R, et al. Early infant feeding and micro-ecology of the gut. Acta Paediatr Jpn 1994; 36:562-571


    Zieger R. Prevention of food allergy in infants and children. Immunology & Allergy Clinics of North America 1999; 19(3)


    ---


    And this is a cool link, but I can't cut & paste...and I just noticed the book was written by Marsha Walker, the same person who authored the "just one bottle" above.


    http://books.google.com/books?id=nuRf-YXawAcC&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=formula+gut+flora&source=web&ots=DO0P92vhsa&sig=yq2meBzz-C_XD_j26jD-MrTg1E4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

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    iVillage Member
    Registered: 12-14-2000
    Tue, 12-02-2008 - 10:46am

    <

    Interesting.>>


    That is interesting.

     

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    iVillage Member
    Registered: 06-24-2008
    Tue, 12-02-2008 - 10:47am

    >>>>You certainly have the right (and ability) to state that you choose not to discuss that aspect of your personal situation and thank others for understanding. Then skip over anything that addresses that aspect.<<<<

    Which I did, in post 269.

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    "The key to good decision making is not knowledge. It is understanding."
    Malcolm Gladwell Blink

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 07-08-2001
    Tue, 12-02-2008 - 10:48am

    The links I just posted in my previous post address the question you asaked lve2read. :-)


    iVillage Member
    Registered: 06-24-2008
    Tue, 12-02-2008 - 10:57am

    >>>>Well, you have been very defensive of her in several posts. "Protective" is the impression I have been getting too.<<<<

    You have the wrong impression. I am arguing/discussing in a debate. I may share her POV, and when I see someone accusing her of making a certain kind of remark, I may point out that others are making similar kinds of remarks to her. I do sometimes take the side of the minority in a debate, but that's more my personality than how I "feel" about Lee. She's the last person who needs "protection" of the people I "know" online.

    >>>>>As far as people thinking they know someone else's feelings, do all the times you've accused others of making "assumptions" about you meds count? Just wondering, since you just did it to me a couple of posts ago...<<<<

    Did I say I knew your feelings?

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