>>>>The method may be less ideal, but the substance is the same. It's not a good arguement for formula. Most organizations still put formula last on their list of recommendations, following EBF, EP, and donor milk.<<<<
The substance is not the same with EPing. I'm not saying it's worse than formula, I'm saying some are very accepting with pumping, if you can't nurse then just pump, without getting into the risks associated with EPing and bottle feeding, but if you don't seriously consider the risks of formula then you are not making an informed choice. Seems like a potential double standard. Are EP'ers expected to carefully consider the risks before they choose EPing? Donor milk is often only an option for preemies and sick children, most mom's of healthy full term babies cannot get milk from a milk bank unless there is an oversupply, and under supply seems to be common from my research. You can do milk share but that is not recommended by anyone who is an authority on bf'ing.
>>>>>Most women can BF, that is a fact. If it were not the case then humans wouldn't survive. The only reason women don't accept this is because it is culturally acceptable to not BF for other reasons than our disclaimer here includes. Wet nurses are still women who BF, why are you making that distinction? If formula wasn't an option now, would women try harder to work through problems if their baby's very survival depended on it?<<<<
I was talking about wet nurses being available historically for women who wouldn't or couldn't bf'd. Of course the wet nurse is a nursing mom - but the wet nurse is providing a service for a non-nursing mom. Why in developing countries are there such high mortality rates and such a push to increase breastfeeding rates there? http://www.unicef.org/media/media_40468.html It seems in many parts of the world babies survival does depend on breastfeeding, and yet it is a serious problem to get women to bf'd there too.
>>>>>Let's talk about the infant mortality rate in the US. Why don't you look it up and compare it to some European countries. Although this does have more to do with birthing practices, as usual the US is inferior! (Before someone flames me, yes I am an American citizen!)>>>>>
The vast majority of deaths in the US are from congenital abnormalities, prematurity or low birth weight and SIDS. They are primarily related to pregnancy issues, smoking around a newborn and sleep position issues, not feeding issues.
The substance is not the same with EPing. I'm not saying it's worse than formula, I'm saying some are very accepting with pumping, if you can't nurse then just pump, without getting into the risks associated with EPing and bottle feeding, but if you don't seriously consider the risks of formula then you are not making an informed choice. Seems like a potential double standard. Are EP'ers expected to carefully consider the risks before they choose EPing?
No, no, no. If someone says they can't nurse, Pumping is thrown out as option because it is next in line on the options. If someone can't nurse, they are going to have to pick Pumping or formula, because those are usually the two only realistic options. Since pumping has far fewer risks than formula, pumping is usually given as the first option. We *do* usually talk about the risks of bottle feeding on this board. These risks *don't* just go with formula feeding, but EPing, too. It isn't a double standard. How is it a double standard to point out that one could pump instead of use formula? Now if someone is just picking EPing because putting a baby to their breast feels *icky* to them, I have seen many of the regulars here point out that BF at the boob is better. Maybe you just haven't been here long enough to see those conversations.
That is possible - I have not seen any posts listing the risks of EPing. There is another thread with many pros and cons, but specifically about risks. There were lots of pros and cons on both sides of nursing vs. EPing, though I can't imagine most women who pick EPing felt that nursing was a good option or an option at all for them. Probably like women who FF'd, who for whatever reason felt nursing or EPing was not a good option for them or an option at all, in their case.
So let me apply your thought process to my own situation. I was bf'd 6 weeks and my mom only stopped because a misinformed, uneducated doctor told her she had to. If I could go back and be that 6 week old with my current knowledge I'd tell her the doctor was wrong. But if she told me she hated the feeling of bf'ing, she miserable every time she bf'd, and I could tell her now what I think even knowing what I know, I'd tell her not to be miserable and ff'ing was okay. I wouldn't want my mom to hate feeding me and since bf'ing is so personal, I'd consider that a personal choice on her part. If pumping was an option for her, I'd probably tell her that is better than formula.
In my current mood, I'd probably tell my mom to get over herself, and BF me so I didn't end up such a sickly child & adult - and so my children didn't have to suffer as well. But then I haven't "felt the love" from her most of my life, so worrying about her needs and wants wouldn't be at the top of my list...
(Sorry, I guess I'm in a mood because I have to go see my family on Saturday for a Christmas get-together and shop today for a gift that
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>>>>The method may be less ideal, but the substance is the same. It's not a good arguement for formula. Most organizations still put formula last on their list of recommendations, following EBF, EP, and donor milk.<<<<
The substance is not the same with EPing. I'm not saying it's worse than formula, I'm saying some are very accepting with pumping, if you can't nurse then just pump, without getting into the risks associated with EPing and bottle feeding, but if you don't seriously consider the risks of formula then you are not making an informed choice. Seems like a potential double standard. Are EP'ers expected to carefully consider the risks before they choose EPing? Donor milk is often only an option for preemies and sick children, most mom's of healthy full term babies cannot get milk from a milk bank unless there is an oversupply, and under supply seems to be common from my research. You can do milk share but that is not recommended by anyone who is an authority on bf'ing.
>>>>>Most women can BF, that is a fact. If it were not the case then humans wouldn't survive. The only reason women don't accept this is because it is culturally acceptable to not BF for other reasons than our disclaimer here includes. Wet nurses are still women who BF, why are you making that distinction? If formula wasn't an option now, would women try harder to work through problems if their baby's very survival depended on it?<<<<
I was talking about wet nurses being available historically for women who wouldn't or couldn't bf'd. Of course the wet nurse is a nursing mom - but the wet nurse is providing a service for a non-nursing mom. Why in developing countries are there such high mortality rates and such a push to increase breastfeeding rates there? http://www.unicef.org/media/media_40468.html It seems in many parts of the world babies survival does depend on breastfeeding, and yet it is a serious problem to get women to bf'd there too.
>>>>>Let's talk about the infant mortality rate in the US. Why don't you look it up and compare it to some European countries. Although this does have more to do with birthing practices, as usual the US is inferior! (Before someone flames me, yes I am an American citizen!)>>>>>
The vast majority of deaths in the US are from congenital abnormalities, prematurity or low birth weight and SIDS. They are primarily related to pregnancy issues, smoking around a newborn and sleep position issues, not feeding issues.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db09.htm
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004393.html
Malcolm Gladwell Blink
The substance is not the same with EPing. I'm not saying it's worse than formula, I'm saying some are very accepting with pumping, if you can't nurse then just pump, without getting into the risks associated with EPing and bottle feeding, but if you don't seriously consider the risks of formula then you are not making an informed choice. Seems like a potential double standard. Are EP'ers expected to carefully consider the risks before they choose EPing?
No, no, no. If someone says they can't nurse, Pumping is thrown out as option because it is next in line on the options. If someone can't nurse, they are going to have to pick Pumping or formula, because those are usually the two only realistic options. Since pumping has far fewer risks than formula, pumping is usually given as the first option. We *do* usually talk about the risks of bottle feeding on this board. These risks *don't* just go with formula feeding, but EPing, too. It isn't a double standard. How is it a double standard to point out that one could pump instead of use formula? Now if someone is just picking EPing because putting a baby to their breast feels *icky* to them, I have seen many of the regulars here point out that BF at the boob is better. Maybe you just haven't been here long enough to see those conversations.
~*bEcQUi*~
2 KiDs, a HuBbY, & a NeUroTiC doG
www.apileofe
"How would an infant *know* there is a choice between bf'ing and ff'ing. We aren't talking reality here."
I see we're arguing in circles, lol.
Malcolm Gladwell Blink
I just wanted to tell you all that I am sorry I came off wrong.
Malcolm Gladwell Blink
I donated my freezer stash of EBM to another mom through
* Milk Share *
I donated my freezer stash of EBM to another mom through
* Milk Share *
<>
This reminds me of the Pakistani twins and the Nestle ban.
In my current mood, I'd probably tell my mom to get over herself, and BF me so I didn't end up such a sickly child & adult - and so my children didn't have to suffer as well. But then I haven't "felt the love" from her most of my life, so worrying about her needs and wants wouldn't be at the top of my list...
(Sorry, I guess I'm in a mood because I have to go see my family on Saturday for a Christmas get-together and shop today for a gift that
~*~ Catherine, mom to three grown men - Jason, Michael & Joshua and Granma to Christopher & Leia.
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