"I think the human race survived women not wanting or not being able to bf'd in part due to wet nurses and because "most" women can bf'd."
How common do you think wet nursing really was among the peasant classes? I have to say that I was surprised that Carlo Cipolla brought it up in his book Before the Industrial Revolution: European Society and Economy 1000-1700, but only very briefly. Apparently there was a sex-based market for it.
Based on the research I've done, I would think that, among the peasant classes, wet nursing would have been the last resort (e.g. the mother died).
Even where formula is not available, not all women choose to bf'd, and in the past when women didn't want to bf'd, they had other options too:
"When baby formulas were commercially available, wet nurses were needed less and less. In the 1980’s, it was discovered that AIDS and other viruses could be transferred in breast milk: the use of wet nurses was even less. ." http://www.breastfeeding-mom.com/wet-nurse.html
Do you think that being forced to keep BFing, she might have become a more involved, more caring mom - or to you think that once a mom "that leaves a lot to be desired" always that type of mom?
Serious question - not so much about my mom in particular - but do you think that experiences can change you, when you are put in a position of needing to change to get thru it?
My personal belief (& experience) is that it does - that many will rise to the occasion, when they thought they couldn't, when it was just in theory. So many people have said to me over the years, oh, I could never do that - and it makes me wonder - could you really not? Could you really stand by and watch your child suffer, when you knew there was something that could make the difference? If you had to do it, do you really think that you would not survive, would forever resent your child?
Of course, that goes back to education and support, so that
Only based on my limited reading on it so far, it seems if you were wealthy you could hire a wet nurse, if you were poor and needed one you'd look to your sisters or cousins or neighbors. Also if you look even now at poor developing nations there are problems with breastfeeding rates, breastfeeding practices, and you will find wet nursing going on there too.
Of all the things I've had that you mentioned (strep many many times, the flu a few times, mono my freshman year of college), thankfully I've had few ear infections. I did get an infection in both ears once, though.
Did I mention that the symptoms presented themselves the day after my wedding day? We went to an urgent care place in Everett Washington on our way to visit DH's grandparents on our honeymoon. I spent the first few days sleeping it off, and then the antibiotics gave me a yeast infection. Terrific. My honeymoon was like a comedy of errors. A tornado hit my hometown a half-block from where we lived while we were gone.
Anyway, DH has a condition called cholestiotoma, which means that he gets a buildup of skin behind the eardrum in his left ear. It causes recurrent ear infections and can erode bone. That's what his surgery last month was about- removing the cholestiotoma, and they had to remove his incus and part of his malleus as well. That's why he's deaf in that ear until they can fix it next summer. :(
I agree many people will rise to an occasion when they are forced. But you have to believe you can and when someone is saying they can't, I am prone to believe them. You can't unless you think you can.
Not everyone is able to rise to the occasion. Some mothers are abusive and if I knew a mother was abusive I wouldn't expect her to rise to the occasion to do what is best, she's got some issues that lead her to not do what is best. If that kind of mom choose not to bf'd then I'd leave it alone.
I agree there should be more education and support available. I also think if society could make bf'ing look sexy and cool, it would become more popular. Maybe we need a "celebrities who bf'd" campaign but done in a way that "having a baby" doesn't become more "cool and sexy" to the teenagers. If that is even that possible?
<<My personal belief (& experience) is that it does - that many will rise to the occasion, when they thought they couldn't, when it was just in theory. So many people have said to me over the years, oh, I could never do that - and it makes me wonder - could you really not? Could you really stand by and watch your child suffer, when you knew there was something that could make the difference? If you had to do it, do you really think that you would not survive, would forever resent your child?>>
Yes! So many of you are reading my mind today! The way I approach BF v F is really in the manner of, if there was no formula, would you have continued? Why does the availability of the option make it any less important to provide the biological standard for your child? (obvious disclaimer here)
The overwhelming presence of formula in our society IMO makes it too easy to give up. Say,
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"I think the human race survived women not wanting or not being able to bf'd in part due to wet nurses and because "most" women can bf'd."
How common do you think wet nursing really was among the peasant classes? I have to say that I was surprised that Carlo Cipolla brought it up in his book Before the Industrial Revolution: European Society and Economy 1000-1700, but only very briefly. Apparently there was a sex-based market for it.
Based on the research I've done, I would think that, among the peasant classes, wet nursing would have been the last resort (e.g. the mother died).
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Even where formula is not available, not all women choose to bf'd, and in the past when women didn't want to bf'd, they had other options too:
"When baby formulas were commercially available, wet nurses were needed less and less. In the 1980’s, it was discovered that AIDS and other viruses could be transferred in breast milk: the use of wet nurses was even less. ." http://www.breastfeeding-mom.com/wet-nurse.html
"Not your mother's milk" http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/jan/05/health.medicineandhealth
Malcolm Gladwell Blink
Do you think that being forced to keep BFing, she might have become a more involved, more caring mom - or to you think that once a mom "that leaves a lot to be desired" always that type of mom?
Serious question - not so much about my mom in particular - but do you think that experiences can change you, when you are put in a position of needing to change to get thru it?
My personal belief (& experience) is that it does - that many will rise to the occasion, when they thought they couldn't, when it was just in theory. So many people have said to me over the years, oh, I could never do that - and it makes me wonder - could you really not? Could you really stand by and watch your child suffer, when you knew there was something that could make the difference? If you had to do it, do you really think that you would not survive, would forever resent your child?
Of course, that goes back to education and support, so that
~*~ Catherine, mom to three grown men - Jason, Michael & Joshua and Granma to Christopher & Leia.
I donated my freezer stash of EBM to another mom through
* Milk Share *
<
Malcolm Gladwell Blink
Of all the things I've had that you mentioned (strep many many times, the flu a few times, mono my freshman year of college), thankfully I've had few ear infections. I did get an infection in both ears once, though.
Did I mention that the symptoms presented themselves the day after my wedding day? We went to an urgent care place in Everett Washington on our way to visit DH's grandparents on our honeymoon. I spent the first few days sleeping it off, and then the antibiotics gave me a yeast infection. Terrific. My honeymoon was like a comedy of errors. A tornado hit my hometown a half-block from where we lived while we were gone.
Anyway, DH has a condition called cholestiotoma, which means that he gets a buildup of skin behind the eardrum in his left ear. It causes recurrent ear infections and can erode bone. That's what his surgery last month was about- removing the cholestiotoma, and they had to remove his incus and part of his malleus as well. That's why he's deaf in that ear until they can fix it next summer. :(
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Thanks
I agree many people will rise to an occasion when they are forced. But you have to believe you can and when someone is saying they can't, I am prone to believe them. You can't unless you think you can.
Not everyone is able to rise to the occasion. Some mothers are abusive and if I knew a mother was abusive I wouldn't expect her to rise to the occasion to do what is best, she's got some issues that lead her to not do what is best. If that kind of mom choose not to bf'd then I'd leave it alone.
I agree there should be more education and support available. I also think if society could make bf'ing look sexy and cool, it would become more popular. Maybe we need a "celebrities who bf'd" campaign but done in a way that "having a baby" doesn't become more "cool and sexy" to the teenagers. If that is even that possible?
Malcolm Gladwell Blink
<<My personal belief (& experience) is that it does - that many will rise to the occasion, when they thought they couldn't, when it was just in theory. So many people have said to me over the years, oh, I could never do that - and it makes me wonder - could you really not? Could you really stand by and watch your child suffer, when you knew there was something that could make the difference? If you had to do it, do you really think that you would not survive, would forever resent your child?>>
Yes! So many of you are reading my mind today! The way I approach BF v F is really in the manner of, if there was no formula, would you have continued? Why does the availability of the option make it any less important to provide the biological standard for your child? (obvious disclaimer here)
The overwhelming presence of formula in our society IMO makes it too easy to give up. Say,
My DH is a boob man too LOL. Like you said, these issues can be overcome. It really just depends on how committed you are to doing it, KWIM?
Yay for ta-tas!
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