The California ban initiative back in the news

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-27-2009
The California ban initiative back in the news
46
Sat, 06-04-2011 - 10:05pm

This is from today's New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/05/us/05circumcision.html

What I found interesting were a couple of quotes on two issues that procircumcision supporters, until now, have not only always avoided, but that would even be caught dead admitting:

'.....“People are shocked that it has reached this level because there has never been this kind of a direct assault on a Jewish practice here,” said Marc Stern, associate general counsel for the American Jewish Committee, an advocacy group. “This is something that American Jews have always taken for granted — that something that was so contested elsewhere but here, we’re safe and we’re secure.....'[my bold];

and

"...Dr. David Baron, a family physician, certified mohel — someone who performs ritual circumcision — and former chief of staff at Santa Monica-U.C.L.A., said that he would not press any parent to circumcise a son but that he viewed the effort to ban the procedure as “ridiculous and dishonest.”. “To say it is mutilation is wrong from the get-go,” Dr. Baron said. “It is a perfectly valid decision to say that it is not what you want for your child. Any doctor who says it is needed is not being honest [my bold]

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Avatar for islaywhisky
Community Leader
Registered: 01-06-2002
Wed, 08-10-2011 - 11:56pm

" Less people will care that Medicaid no longer covers it (especially in this scary economy) by far than will be up in arms if we attempt to ban religious circumcisions."

Just as the UK's NHS had precisely the same effect when it was established more than 60 years ago. It provided free wigs for men (believe it or not!) which was entirely 'cosmetic'. But refused to fund routine circumcision because it WAS cosmetic!

Christopher

"Education is the discovery of our own ignorance." Will Durant


"Almost any manmade phenomenon i

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-16-2008
Wed, 08-10-2011 - 10:40pm
"I fully understand your argument for a blanket ban of non-therapeutic male child circumcision. In an ideal world I would back you to the hilt. But we live in a world of political compromise.... and it just won't happen, in my opinion."

*like*

That is my belief exactly, that as long as we keep trying to blanket end circumcision we will get no where with it. Education and de-funding the procedure will do more in the long run than any legislation ever will accomplish, and with a lot less resistance. Less people will care that Medicaid no longer covers it (especially in this scary economy) by far than will be up in arms if we attempt to ban religious circumcisions. As small of a minority as the religious group may be, they are powerful and outspoken and not easily silenced in their dissent.
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Avatar for islaywhisky
Community Leader
Registered: 01-06-2002

"Without a forest of cosmetic circumcisions, the idea of religious circumcision is just a single idea, with no other ideas to deflect attention."

Clearly so, but religious (or pseudo-religious) circumcision will continue until or unless it is eradicated from within its ranks. This is the situation in the UK.

To Mark -

I fully understand your argument for a blanket ban of non-therapeutic male child circumcision. In an ideal world I would back you to the hilt. But we live in a world of political compromise.... and it just won't happen, in my opinion.

Then there's the matter of male v

"Education is the discovery of our own ignorance." Will Durant


"Almost any manmade phenomenon i

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-10-2011

“I understand your point, but to be honest I don't want to see circumcision made illegal. I just want people to stop choosing it. Education is more important IMO than legislation. “

Some parents choose to not circumcise for ethical reasons, others only realize it's unneccesary when insurance is removed. A “pocketbook education” has proven itself a most effective tool, some people will only partially hear you when you say it’s unnecessary

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-23-2010
I think we all want parents to not want to do that to their kids, but the fact is that boys are being harmed every day and it has to stop. If making it illegal is the best way to do it, then that's what should be fought for. I'd give anything for it to have been illegal when I was born so my parents wouldn't be allowed to do it to me, it would make little to no difference for what reason they didn't do it to me, as long as they just didn't do it.

The fact is, if you're going to have laws against child abuse, then there's no reason why circumcision should be any exception. So for the sake of the integrity of the law, it should definitely be illegal.
Avatar for islaywhisky
Community Leader
Registered: 01-06-2002
Fri, 08-05-2011 - 11:59pm

Loved the story, Ellisa. And sometimes humour tells a truth which has more impact than any argument!

"I just want people to stop choosing it. Education is more important IMO than legislation."

Goodness yes. And the UK, to my knowledge, was the first advanced nation which once circumcised its boys routinely, that chose education over legislation.

Christopher

"Education is the discovery of our own ignorance." Will Durant


"Almost any manmade phenomenon i

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-16-2008
Fri, 08-05-2011 - 10:38pm
I understand your point, but to be honest I don't want to see circumcision made illegal. I just want people to stop choosing it. Education is more important IMO than legislation.

Funny side story, my mother (Jewish) was reading about the CA initiative in the Jewish Journal. She was "shocked" to read that there is no medical basis for circumcision and that it isn't recommended. Uhm, I tried fighting that into her head my entire.flipping.pregnancy and the three days I was in the hospital post delivery. She didn't listen but since the JJ said it, it must be true. *headdesk*
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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-23-2010
Fri, 08-05-2011 - 10:09am
It's a matter of the age old dilemma of principle vs. practicality. I don't think anyone would dispute that what you're talking about is a far more practical method of achieving progress, but then there's the principled stand that there's no reason that religion should get an exemption (whether you want to call it that or not), and just because a group may be a small minority, that doesn't mean they don't deserve to be fought for any less than the majority. I'm not even arguing here that the practical way isn't the way to go, but at least allow me the pain that comes from sacrificing a principle.
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-10-2011

“It wouldn't be that bad of a thing, but to me, a religious exemption is just so fundamentally wrong.”

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-01-2010
Wed, 08-03-2011 - 10:00pm

"Ironically, I was circumcised in California. Do you have a link to the statistics in California over the last few decades, I'd be very interested in seeing it. "

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