At last we're getting the health argument rather than the emotional one!
"...a team of economists and epidemiologists estimated that every circumcision not performed would lead to significant increases in lifetime medical expenses to treat sexually transmitted diseases and related cancers — increases that far surpass the costs associated with the procedure."
You obviously believe this, Tony. For the sake of iVillage's overall 'Circumcision' topic, I hope you will get some support from parents who are considering circumcision for their boys, but I doubt there will any from the UK.
"Education is the discovery of our own ignorance." Will Durant
"Almost any manmade phenomenon i
Indeed I do, Christopher - unlike UK GPs and other medical professionals who are either woefully (or wilfully!) unaware of the evidence which has built up in recent years to support circumcision as a prophylactic against a range of STIs and physical foreskin problems.
You are quite right that even if there was a change of thinking on this it would be a 'hard sell' to UK parents today - so firmly entrenched is the anti-circumcision culture over here.
The LA Times article and others like it, came as no surprise to me. On official figures the NHS performs 30.000 circumcisions a year - in most cases as a last resort when less invasive treatments have failed and patients young and old have suffered considerably from 'wait and see' policies.
Because the NHS makes a bigger event than need be out of circumcision, it provides a full, team on a day ward and administers risky GA. The cost is enormous compared to the simple half hour procedure performed under LA at private clinics.
Add to this the cost of treating the burgeoning scourge of STIs in our irresponsible society and the expensive treatment of cervical cancer. The incidence of both of these are seriously diminished (or would be within a generation) by routine infant circumcision. To avoid debate I'll not argue the proportion preventable because it varies from zero to a serious statistic according to the disease and the situation.
This leaves me gasping as to why the great swathe of medical professionals and even bean-counting NHS bureaucrats don't examine the evidence supporting RIC! Instead they simply parrot the mantra 'no medical benefits' because that has become the unfounded consensus.
My bottom line is live and let live. if you don't believe this - and it leaves me gasping that people don't' - then don't circumcise your boys. But please allow those who do to pursue what they believe is best for their boys without criticism.
Christopher, As you indicated at the outset, our opinions differ diametrically.. Please don't debate the above further. You have your opinion, I have mine above. Let's leave these posts without further response in this 'support' area.
PS I will comment on the long awaited AAP statement when the official text is published.
Tony, thank you for your comprehensive reply.
I hope you have noted that any response I have made to threads since iVillge restructured the Circumcision topic, including the occasional thread of my own during your absence, have all been carefully neutral on this board. At one stage I even posted a request in BabyCenter's active Circumcision Support group for its members to consider posting here in addition to their own.
I earnestly want our three boards (or folders) under our umbrella heading of Circumcision to not only survive but become truly active again. We are in danger of complete stagnation and that is a puzzling state of affairs when other family-orientated websites discussing circumcision are thriving.
Perversely - and I use the term without bias - the AAP's impending statement might just be what we need. Time will tell.
Rest assured that if I comment on any thread here it will not be an attempt to turn parents or others away from their decision circumcise. I will defend a loving resolve to circumcise, beyond any scruples I may possess. The fact that I was necessarily circumcised as an adult gives me an uncommon perspective.
I hope our shared friendship will endure.
Thank you for your clarification Christopher, I'm fine with you and what you are proposing here. In fact if we met in the pub for a pint I think we could have an interesting, calm and respectful discussion on our experiences of circumcision and why it has led us into our opposing camps.
I share your concern about the lack of traffic on both the 'for' and 'against' boards. It used to be quite healthy ....until iVillage revamped the boards and that killed us stone dead! At first it wasn't picked up by the search engine. But even when that was fxed it made little or no difference. You and I and CM Melissa have made valiant efforts to regenerate things but it remains curiously quiet compared to its heyday before the board makeover.
Agreed the subject is better in one folder, providing people note, remember and respect the arena in whiich they post.
I'm sure you will do that and police both areas as I will for violations.
Tony, I'm very glad we're actively in tandem again as CLs under the 'Circumcision' group.
I must question your suggestion that the iVillage revamp caused a demise of the three (not two!) boards. Its very change was an attempt to rejuvenate an already 'dead' state of affairs. Frankly we are only marginally better today - even after the AAP's revised statement; but we will see what this may achieve...
The one very useful and pleasing feature is the ability to jump easily between all three boards under 'Circumcision'. There is no other family-based website that enables this. It gives visitors searching the circumcision topic almost instant access to all three boards and all three points of view; and for you and me, as co-CLs, to monitor and contribute as appropriate.
Nonetheless, there is this puzzling dearth of activity on the subject of circumcision in iVillage in stark contrast to other websites. It remains an ever present conundrum.
P.S. Please look for a PM from me, shortly.
Just to clarify. I'm not criticising the iVillage Boards makeover, far from it, I think it was a huge improvement. It's just that our flow of posts dried up overnight as soon as it was implemented and itb has never recovered since. I really can't account or it.
Sadly I agree, my friend.