Ban smoking in car with kids?

Avatar for cmkristy
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2005
Ban smoking in car with kids?
24
Thu, 03-14-2013 - 2:52pm

SALEM, Ore. (AP) — Adults who smoke in a car with a child could face hundreds of dollars in fines under a bill approved Wednesday in the Oregon Senate.

If the House gives its approval and Gov. John Kitzhaber signs the bill, Oregon would join four other states with similar measures. Violators would face a maximum fine of $250 for a first offense and $500 for subsequent offenses.

The Senate's 19-10 vote Wednesday did not follow party lines.

Proponents said secondhand smoke is harmful, and minors shouldn't be subjected to health hazards because of their parents' decision to smoke. They say smoke can be trapped inside a vehicle and pool in the back seat where children often sit.

Oregon senate votes to ban smoking in car with kids- http://www.katu.com/politics/Oregon-Senate-votes-to-ban-smoking-in-car-with-kids-197833801.html

What do you think? Should smoking with children in the car be banned?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2009
Tue, 03-19-2013 - 9:35pm

So, six open windows and the smoke still stayed in your house and circulated to other rooms. So, tell me, was it a hot day outside? Very little wind?

Depending on the temperature (between inside and outside of the house), the house air exchange rate, pressure differentials (air flow about your house and inside), is it possible. Air flow does follow basic laws of physics.

And you can smell the smoke from your son smoking on your deck. Tell your son next time to smoke at least 10 yards away from the house, with the wind blowing away from the house, with all the windows closed. Not too smart to sneak a cigarette with the windows open, with the prevailing air flow towards the house. Duh!

Better still tell you son not to smoke.

And those are your reasons to allow smoking in a smaller, more confined space. Huh? That it is just as bad in a house? And you call me illogical. Gee, ever took basic courses in thermal dynamics and aerodynamics?

One would hope that parents with children would be smart enough to refrain from smoking in the same room as their child; go outside to smoke downwind from the house; make sure no one else smokes in their house; installs flters and high effciency air exchange system, know how to selectively open windows for air flow...

Better still, do not smoke.

At least in a house, with its larger air mass, the ppm of the harmful chemicals does become more diluted. Sure the particulates will settle on clothes and furniture. It is not ideal, of course. No one should smoke. But, at least, a child can move away from the direct exposure and is not confined in a car seat or by a seat belt.  The smoker can go outside, at a far distance from the house, to limit the exposure of others to second-hand smoke.

So, you learned how to crack a window open to reduce the odor. Good for you.  All you are doing is neutralizing air pressure. But did you think about how that smoke was impacting your passengers before you had to crack open the window? Did you know that all of the chemicals left the confined space? 

Or did you think all you had to do is wave away the smoke and all is OK and only if there is an odor, there a problem,that there was no possibility of the harmful chemicals from circulating from the back to the front, from air flow to criss-cross out of the front window to the back.

Also, another side effect, children who regularly see a parent smoke are 3 times more likely  to smoke themselves, compared to children who do not see a parent smoke. (This is from a recent study released from Stats Can.). Kinda hard to hide your smoking habit if you are doing it in a car, in front of them. 

Plus, driving and smoking at the same time... Ever heard of distracted driving?

Here, there is no smoking in cars with children, no smoking in public parks, restaurants, malls, parks, buses, subway, trains, work places, theaters, schools, appartment corridors and lobbies, hotel lobbies, elevators, stairways etc.. It is rare to see a person smoking.

Yes, I can tell when someone is a smoker. It is obvious. Your Point?

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Wed, 03-20-2013 - 7:16am

Holy cow Mom ... really? This is quite a post. Maybe you missed most of what I said so, I will try to explain yet again. I am not sure if you really want a discussion but ... whatever .. here we go ....

It might easier if you actually read people's post ... there would probably be far less repetition. :)

Depending on the temperature (between inside and outside of the house), the house air exchange rate, pressure differentials (air flow about your house and inside), is it possible. Air flow does follow basic laws of physics.

Oh, I thought you said you didn't want to debate physics? lol .. it simply doesn't matter. But sure ... you would really want to consider the speed of the vehicle or if it's idle, the temperature outside and whatnot. I mean really, if you actually want to analyze  this ... or you could just maybe consider what happens to air flow by going on an airplane and once in the air .... open a window or door .... and see what happens.

lol .. yes, My son .... I guess you missed the part where I discussed my fil ....yeah, it's really not rocket science to consider what happens when a person is smoking consistently in a house and since your claim seems to be that smoking in house is different then smoking in car .. well dear that just doesn't make sense. Generally, people spend far less time in car then at home, so exposure at home will be greater. Banning car smoking will not stop exposure.

And you can smell the smoke from your son smoking on your deck. Tell your son next time to smoke at least 10 yards away from the house, with the wind blowing away from the house, with all the windows closed. Not too smart to sneak a cigarette with the windows open, with the prevailing air flow towards the house. Duh!

This statement is so rude? Duh? Is this the best you can do or simply do not understand what is being said?

And those are your reasons to allow smoking in a smaller, more confined space. Huh?

Well, it's clear you are having trouble reading because I did not say this. I will repost for you:

i don't think anyone is arguing the fact second hand smoke is unhealthy to nonsmokers, which includes children. It's just if parents smoke in the car and at home, what health benefits exists if smoking in a car with children is banned.

Uhmm,??? Can you maybe address that statement rather then one you made up where someone supposedly said smoking in a confined space was ok??

Yes, I can tell when someone is a smoker. It is obvious. Your Point?

huh? duh, (lol) when did I ask you this? I can't really explain a point on something I never said lol

lol ... too funny .... I guess maybe it's hard to understand this, but I will try to explain again ... a parent who chooses to smoke in an enclosed car, with no ventilation of air flow, on a hot day or a cold day .... this is your stand, right? There's no air flow in a car? Ok, that parent I highly doubt is the type who will smoke at home, only outdoors, with the wind only blowing away from the house. Oh yes, and at least 10 feet away from the house? Oh, then you claim apparently, is they can go to another room, yet you fail to understand smoking in another room does not stop the smoke from going to other parts of the house. You seem to think the smoke stays within the immediate area of the smoker, which is just silly, right??

Either way, exposure to constant smoking within the house will lead to more exposure to the child. Big brother laws like this do not address the actual health problems. If someone is going to smoke in a car is most likely not concerned with the health risks to the child at home. It appears to be common sense this child is being exposed to second hand smoke at home at an equal, if not greater amounts then what said child is exposed to in a car. So, maybe now you can try to answer the question that was asked .... what health benefits, overall, with this law create?

And again, try the airplane experiment and what happens

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-23-2001
Wed, 03-20-2013 - 8:40am
MIL smokes and the smell stinks, It's gross. We had visited them and she drove my kids back to her place so DH, DS and I could go shopping, I was fine with it but my kids' smelled like smoke when we got back and they complained about the odor too. Yes there is a difference b/w a car with a smoking driver or passengers and smoke-free. She sometimes lights up when she's driving in our car too and thinks she's doing us a favor by cracking the window, It's just a convenient place to drop your butts over anything else. I don't know, There are so many laws/pending legislation floating around I can't keep up, Lol. But in consideration of this one I wouldn't limit it to just kids in the car.

 


 


iVillage Member
Registered: 08-18-2004
Wed, 03-20-2013 - 7:31pm
<< That state also successfully banned trans fats. >> Really? No trans fats in NY state? Do tell.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-18-2004
Wed, 03-20-2013 - 7:44pm
I read a study that said that in "no-texting" states, accidents from texting went up. It said that texting takes more "eye" time away from the road, to hold the phone down on one's lap to text, than up by the steering wheel.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Thu, 03-21-2013 - 7:13am

I read a study that said that in "no-texting" states, accidents from texting went up.
 
Wouldn't surprise me.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Thu, 03-21-2013 - 7:20am

She sometimes lights up when she's driving in our car too and thinks she's doing us a favor by cracking the window

Jams, I don't think, maybe I am wrong, this law would go into effect based on what is the polite thing to do. I don't even think there's a debate on the health risks of second hand smoke.

But in consideration of this one I wouldn't limit it to just kids in the car.

A law like this would actually make more sense, whether I agreed with the law or not ... it seems more logical. As Mom so kindly pointed out, there's risks involved with smoking in a car ... or like I said, there's sparks, smoke in the eyes .... or as Mom said (lol) smoking can be a distraction. So, sure, if the government wants to impose this restriction, then why not just say ... no smoking while driving .. like no texting or some states, no using cell phones while driving.

IMO, when someone tries to twist this as it being a health concern for children, it looses logic, IMO ... unless of course we are strictly considering a non parent smoking in a car with children that would otherwise not be exposed to second hand smoke.

btw, I just wanted to add, on occasion, my son will smoke in his car, when I am with him. He very politely will ask if that is ok, he waits until we are on the high way and then, yes, he opens the window a bit and the key here is ... he holds the cigarette right by the opening, unless of course he is taking a drag. Not that this happens often and not that I am thrilled with the idea, but this is quite different from some people, who will just crack a window holding the cigarette away from it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Fri, 03-22-2013 - 7:07am

Mom, I thought I would supply you with a little information since you seem to support the idea smoking in a house is somehow healthier for children.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/third-hand-smoke/AN01985

Thirdhand smoke is generally considered to be residual nicotine and other chemicals left on a variety of indoor surfaces by tobacco smoke. This residue is thought to react with common indoor pollutants to create a toxic mix. This toxic mix of thirdhand smoke contains cancer-causing substances, posing a potential health hazard to nonsmokers who are exposed to it, especially children.

Thirdhand smoke can't be eliminated by airing out rooms, opening windows, using fans or air conditioners, or confining smoking to only certain areas of a home. Thirdhand smoke remains long after smoking has stopped. In contrast, secondhand smoke is the smoke and other airborne products that come from being close to burning tobacco products, such as cigarettes.

The only way to protect nonsmokers from thirdhand smoke is to create a smoke-free environment, whether that's your private home or vehicle, or in public places, such as hotels and restaurants.

http://www.njgasp.org/ths.htm

The persistence of thirdhand smoke in real-world residential settings has been demonstrated based on nicotine and 3-EP concentrations in air, dust, and surfaces in the days, weeks, and months after the last smoking has taken place. Further support comes from quantitative measurements of ultrafine tobacco smoke particles resuspended after their deposition on household surfaces.

  • Thirdhand smoke is ubiquitous and pervasive wherever tobacco has been smoked. Its presence in air and dust and on surfaces allows for multiple exposure routes, and thirdhand smoke creates special risks for nonsmokers who spend time indoors in proximity to polluted surfaces. Infants and children are especially vulnerable, because of their increased exposure and increased sensitivity to pollutants, as are persons with limited mobility and populations that spend time in multiunit housing and spaces with frequent changes in occupancy.
  • The presence of thirdhand smoke compounds in the air, in dust, and on surfaces of indoor environments creates potential exposure routes through inhalation, ingestion, and dermal transfer. It is estimated that infants and young children are 100 times more sensitive than adults to pollutants in house dust because of such factors as increased respiration relative to body size and immature metabolic capacity. These pathways are likely to be relevant for children living in homes in which adults smoke, even if smoking occurs at times or in rooms when no children are present.
  • The review stated that tobacco smoke contains volatile organic compounds (VOCs), and the constituents of thirdhand smoke identified to date include nicotine, 3-ethenylpyridine (3-EP), phenol, cresols, naphthalene, formaldehyde, and tobacco-specific nitrosamines.
  • Knowledge about THS could be used clinically to encourage home and car smoking bans among individuals and to promote cessation.

 

Smokers may also contaminate their homes by bringing in clothing exposed to smoke.

  • Matt, G.E., Quintana, P.J.E., Hovell, M.F., Bernert, J.T., Song, S., Novianti, N., Juarez, T., Flora, J., Gehrman, C., Garcia, M. and Larson, S. Households contaminated by environmental tobacco smoke: sources of infant exposures. Tobacco Control, 13:29-37, 2004. Read the study.
  • Although all smoking was outdoors, children had nicotine in their hair and urine, and mothers who smoked away from their children were found to have nearly as much nicotine on their hands as smokers who made no special effort. Cited from http://www.thestressoflife.com/smoking_outside_may_not_protect_.htm.

 

So again Mom, your claim smoking in a home or outdoors is somehow healthier for children, just doesn't hold up. Children simply cannot move away from exposure .... as you claimed.

So, again, can you explain the overall health benfits, to children, this big brother law will create?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-23-2001
Mon, 03-25-2013 - 11:30am

She sometimes lights up when she's driving in our car too and thinks she's doing us a favor by cracking the window

Jams, I don't think, maybe I am wrong, this law would go into effect based on what is the polite thing to do

I know, That was my little tid bit about her smoking in my car. 

Do I think this is being considered b/c of health risks and second hand smoke?  Absolutely!  I don't agree this is only b/c its a distraction.  Putting on lipstick is a distraction, Eating a burger in a car is a distraction and cell phones are , Why (we as individual states) crack down on some distractions but not all is beyond me too...

 


 


iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2009
Wed, 03-27-2013 - 10:30am

Do you really think I believe that second hand smoking is NOT dangerous for children? Really? Wow! No one should smoke, at all. It is a self-destructive addictive habit which puts others at risk. Talk about twisting what I wrote!

I was responding to your comment that all you had to do was crack open a window while driving and all was Ok. And why smoking in a confined space, with children, is especially dangerous if you look at the physics (i.e. air flow etc) of the situation.  Smoking in a non-confined space is still, OF COURSE, not a good idea. But, at least, the addicted smoker can distance himself from others by going outside a good distance. That will reduce the risk by reducing ppm concentration of toxins. Do you understand what ppm is?

Would it be benefical to the health of children if no smoking was allowed in any home they lived in?  Sure, it would but such a law would not be enforceable.   But governments can ban smoking in cars and vehicles. Those laws are enforceable because those vechicles use public roadways. Any reduction in a child's exposure to second hand smoke helps. 

Here, we have a ban on smoking in all public areas-parks, malls, theaters, busses, trains, restaurants, stores, places of businesses. No smoking in the break room allowed here.  If people want to smoke, you have to move a certain distance (I forget how far) from all public buildings.

We also do not allow any advertisements for cigarettes; cigarettes are not displayed in any store. They are stored behind the counter, in non-glass cabinets. The person has to ask for the cigarettes and provide proof of  age (19) is challenged.

We also ban smoking in cars with children. Even if there are no children in a car, if a smoker causes an accident because he/she did not have two hands on the wheel and was distracted, they can be charged with dangerous driving.

Are these laws working? Yup, they are. The % of people smoking and the degree those smokers do smoke is dropping, especially among the young.

You rarely see a person smoking here now; no more ash trays of discarded butts.