Ban smoking in car with kids?

Avatar for cmkristy
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2005
Ban smoking in car with kids?
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Thu, 03-14-2013 - 2:52pm

SALEM, Ore. (AP) — Adults who smoke in a car with a child could face hundreds of dollars in fines under a bill approved Wednesday in the Oregon Senate.

If the House gives its approval and Gov. John Kitzhaber signs the bill, Oregon would join four other states with similar measures. Violators would face a maximum fine of $250 for a first offense and $500 for subsequent offenses.

The Senate's 19-10 vote Wednesday did not follow party lines.

Proponents said secondhand smoke is harmful, and minors shouldn't be subjected to health hazards because of their parents' decision to smoke. They say smoke can be trapped inside a vehicle and pool in the back seat where children often sit.

Oregon senate votes to ban smoking in car with kids- http://www.katu.com/politics/Oregon-Senate-votes-to-ban-smoking-in-car-with-kids-197833801.html

What do you think? Should smoking with children in the car be banned?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-18-2004
Wed, 03-20-2013 - 7:31pm
<< That state also successfully banned trans fats. >> Really? No trans fats in NY state? Do tell.
Avatar for jamblessedthree
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-23-2001
Wed, 03-20-2013 - 8:40am
MIL smokes and the smell stinks, It's gross. We had visited them and she drove my kids back to her place so DH, DS and I could go shopping, I was fine with it but my kids' smelled like smoke when we got back and they complained about the odor too. Yes there is a difference b/w a car with a smoking driver or passengers and smoke-free. She sometimes lights up when she's driving in our car too and thinks she's doing us a favor by cracking the window, It's just a convenient place to drop your butts over anything else. I don't know, There are so many laws/pending legislation floating around I can't keep up, Lol. But in consideration of this one I wouldn't limit it to just kids in the car.

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Wed, 03-20-2013 - 7:16am

Holy cow Mom ... really? This is quite a post. Maybe you missed most of what I said so, I will try to explain yet again. I am not sure if you really want a discussion but ... whatever .. here we go ....

It might easier if you actually read people's post ... there would probably be far less repetition. :)

Depending on the temperature (between inside and outside of the house), the house air exchange rate, pressure differentials (air flow about your house and inside), is it possible. Air flow does follow basic laws of physics.

Oh, I thought you said you didn't want to debate physics? lol .. it simply doesn't matter. But sure ... you would really want to consider the speed of the vehicle or if it's idle, the temperature outside and whatnot. I mean really, if you actually want to analyze  this ... or you could just maybe consider what happens to air flow by going on an airplane and once in the air .... open a window or door .... and see what happens.

lol .. yes, My son .... I guess you missed the part where I discussed my fil ....yeah, it's really not rocket science to consider what happens when a person is smoking consistently in a house and since your claim seems to be that smoking in house is different then smoking in car .. well dear that just doesn't make sense. Generally, people spend far less time in car then at home, so exposure at home will be greater. Banning car smoking will not stop exposure.

And you can smell the smoke from your son smoking on your deck. Tell your son next time to smoke at least 10 yards away from the house, with the wind blowing away from the house, with all the windows closed. Not too smart to sneak a cigarette with the windows open, with the prevailing air flow towards the house. Duh!

This statement is so rude? Duh? Is this the best you can do or simply do not understand what is being said?

And those are your reasons to allow smoking in a smaller, more confined space. Huh?

Well, it's clear you are having trouble reading because I did not say this. I will repost for you:

i don't think anyone is arguing the fact second hand smoke is unhealthy to nonsmokers, which includes children. It's just if parents smoke in the car and at home, what health benefits exists if smoking in a car with children is banned.

Uhmm,??? Can you maybe address that statement rather then one you made up where someone supposedly said smoking in a confined space was ok??

Yes, I can tell when someone is a smoker. It is obvious. Your Point?

huh? duh, (lol) when did I ask you this? I can't really explain a point on something I never said lol

lol ... too funny .... I guess maybe it's hard to understand this, but I will try to explain again ... a parent who chooses to smoke in an enclosed car, with no ventilation of air flow, on a hot day or a cold day .... this is your stand, right? There's no air flow in a car? Ok, that parent I highly doubt is the type who will smoke at home, only outdoors, with the wind only blowing away from the house. Oh yes, and at least 10 feet away from the house? Oh, then you claim apparently, is they can go to another room, yet you fail to understand smoking in another room does not stop the smoke from going to other parts of the house. You seem to think the smoke stays within the immediate area of the smoker, which is just silly, right??

Either way, exposure to constant smoking within the house will lead to more exposure to the child. Big brother laws like this do not address the actual health problems. If someone is going to smoke in a car is most likely not concerned with the health risks to the child at home. It appears to be common sense this child is being exposed to second hand smoke at home at an equal, if not greater amounts then what said child is exposed to in a car. So, maybe now you can try to answer the question that was asked .... what health benefits, overall, with this law create?

And again, try the airplane experiment and what happens

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2009
Tue, 03-19-2013 - 9:35pm

So, six open windows and the smoke still stayed in your house and circulated to other rooms. So, tell me, was it a hot day outside? Very little wind?

Depending on the temperature (between inside and outside of the house), the house air exchange rate, pressure differentials (air flow about your house and inside), is it possible. Air flow does follow basic laws of physics.

And you can smell the smoke from your son smoking on your deck. Tell your son next time to smoke at least 10 yards away from the house, with the wind blowing away from the house, with all the windows closed. Not too smart to sneak a cigarette with the windows open, with the prevailing air flow towards the house. Duh!

Better still tell you son not to smoke.

And those are your reasons to allow smoking in a smaller, more confined space. Huh? That it is just as bad in a house? And you call me illogical. Gee, ever took basic courses in thermal dynamics and aerodynamics?

One would hope that parents with children would be smart enough to refrain from smoking in the same room as their child; go outside to smoke downwind from the house; make sure no one else smokes in their house; installs flters and high effciency air exchange system, know how to selectively open windows for air flow...

Better still, do not smoke.

At least in a house, with its larger air mass, the ppm of the harmful chemicals does become more diluted. Sure the particulates will settle on clothes and furniture. It is not ideal, of course. No one should smoke. But, at least, a child can move away from the direct exposure and is not confined in a car seat or by a seat belt.  The smoker can go outside, at a far distance from the house, to limit the exposure of others to second-hand smoke.

So, you learned how to crack a window open to reduce the odor. Good for you.  All you are doing is neutralizing air pressure. But did you think about how that smoke was impacting your passengers before you had to crack open the window? Did you know that all of the chemicals left the confined space? 

Or did you think all you had to do is wave away the smoke and all is OK and only if there is an odor, there a problem,that there was no possibility of the harmful chemicals from circulating from the back to the front, from air flow to criss-cross out of the front window to the back.

Also, another side effect, children who regularly see a parent smoke are 3 times more likely  to smoke themselves, compared to children who do not see a parent smoke. (This is from a recent study released from Stats Can.). Kinda hard to hide your smoking habit if you are doing it in a car, in front of them. 

Plus, driving and smoking at the same time... Ever heard of distracted driving?

Here, there is no smoking in cars with children, no smoking in public parks, restaurants, malls, parks, buses, subway, trains, work places, theaters, schools, appartment corridors and lobbies, hotel lobbies, elevators, stairways etc.. It is rare to see a person smoking.

Yes, I can tell when someone is a smoker. It is obvious. Your Point?

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Tue, 03-19-2013 - 7:24pm

I don't think anyone is arguing the fact second hand smoke is unhealthy to nonsmokers, which includes children. It's just if parents smoke in the car and at home, what health benefits exists if smoking in a car with children is banned?

And yes, a car can be enclosed and of course will fill with smoke .... having smoked for years, I can say there's ways to avoid this.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2009
Tue, 03-19-2013 - 3:58pm

It is not just my "view". I was not going to go into a description of the physics of turbullent air flow, the currents about a moving car with or without open windows and the air flow in a car's ventilation system. It would bore people and this is not the place for that.  

All laws involve some aspects of limiting the rights of individuals to do whatever they want, whenever they want for the common good. This is just, in my opinion, another example of the government balancing the rights of competiting groups (smokers versus children) for the common good, with solid science behind the law.

It would be great if this law was not required and that education into the dangers of second-hand smoke was all that was needed.  But,that is not the case.

As for the large sugary drinks, a better ploy, I would think, would be to levy an additional tax on those drinks and other snack foods with the revenues from that tax going exclusively to the health care system.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2002
Tue, 03-19-2013 - 1:35pm

I've been in the back seat when a driver's been smoking and smoke seemed to collect in the back seat.  Opening windows didn't help.  A day like today where I am ~ rain.  And long cold winters.  You can't open car windows at those times.  It would be nice if the legislatures didn't have to legislate common courtesy to our children.  Children can't always speak up for themselves.  I thought not smoking around children was common sense.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2002
Tue, 03-19-2013 - 1:17pm

shouldbe_rich wrote:
I think it's about as stupid as the big brother law in NY regarding sugary drinks. Neither law affects me, but I disagree with more and more gov't intrusion into personal lives. And I'm not sure about your view that open windows allow smoke to gather in the back. I guess it would depend on "how" open they are.

It's unjustifiable government intrusion too when tax dollars are diverted to treat smokers and the obese.  Avoidable habits.  The number of smokers went down considerably when smoking was banned from public places.  The same may come about with sugary drinks.  That state also successfully banned trans fats. 

I think this will pass the next round of appeals.  And enormous sin taxes will help too.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Tue, 03-19-2013 - 8:40am

In a house, a child can move away from a parent smoking. He can go into another room or the parent can also go outside etc.. The space is less confined; there is better airflow.

Were you ever a smoker or have you ever been exposed to smoker? I ask because the above statement makes no sense. Smoking are children is not a smart thing to do regardless of where one might be. Even smoke on clothes can harm a child.

However, this air flow claim? My fil use to smoke in our house, downstairs, in a sunroom addition, which I add because the wall between the sunroom and house is an outside wall, heavily insulated and such ... anyway, when he smoked there, you could smell smoke all throughout the house. And this was with 6 large windows open.

Now, my oldest son tries to sneak a cigarette in the same area of the house and it's the same scenario. Even smoking on our deck or outside any door, you can smell it throughout a few rooms in the house.

So, honestly, this idea a car is worse then in a home where you can just go to another room, is just illogical. One could also claim that in a car, even with closed windows, one is heavily exposed, but for a shorter amount of time then if they lived with a smoker where exposure is more consistent.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Tue, 03-19-2013 - 8:31am

I think it's about as stupid as the big brother law in NY regarding sugary drinks. Neither law affects me, but I disagree with more and more gov't intrusion into personal lives.

Totally agree.

 And I'm not sure about your view that open windows allow smoke to gather in the back. I guess it would depend on "how" open they are.

Well, I smoked for years, and if a car is moving, the smoke is actually drawn out of the car. Plus, one learns very quickly how to crack a window and keep the cigarette angled so the smoke goes out the car.

If the car is stopped or moving slowly, the window stops most of the smoke from coming back into the car (if the window is cracked. lol ... we did this because even without children, we didn't want a smoked filled car, smoke in our eyes or sparks to come back into the car.