Death Penalty for Penn State?

Avatar for cmkristy
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2005
Death Penalty for Penn State?
69
Thu, 07-12-2012 - 5:11pm

There was this big, respected university with an iconic legend as its football coach.

It also had a pedophile operating in its program.

School officials knew this back in 1998 and covered it up.

They chose this “humane” route of covering up, turning their backs and protecting themselves rather than kids for more than a decade as boys went on being raped in the campus showers and on football trips. They did this because it benefited them, was easier for them and protected what they valued most — the football program.

Penn State should get death penalty- http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-should-lose-football-privileges-dealth-penalty-in-wake-of-freeh-report-child-sex-abuse-071212

 

The author goes on to say that she believes the football program needs to come to an end at this time, partly because it will send a strong message to other schools and institutions.  She also says "A big reason this was allowed to happen was because the whole economy of Penn State was football. If you take that away, they might learn."

Do you agree?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Fri, 08-03-2012 - 6:45am

Google NCAA read their website.

lol ... I already did.

This is a criminal action falling under the laws of the state of Pennsylvania.

I don't know how to word this and I know you are a lawyer, but stating everything as fact, that is more of your opinion, isn't really convincing me of anything. Obviously, there's lawyers out there that disagree with you.

It wasn't college athletes? Just students? Does it matter?

Avatar for xxxs
Community Leader
Registered: 01-25-2010
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 10:24pm

" I would think everyone involved would have been on high alert."   

     No the charges were investigated and dropped.   This is much like the human mentality.  the fable of the boy who cried wolf comes to mind. 

 

  

The Boy Who Cried Wolf

letter B

There once was a shepherd boy who was bored as he sat on the hillside watching the village sheep. To amuse himself he took a great breath and sang out, "Wolf! Wolf! The Wolf is chasing the sheep!"

The villagers came running up the hill to help the boy drive the wolf away. But when they arrived at the top of the hill, they found no wolf. The boy laughed at the sight of their angry faces.

"Don't cry 'wolf', shepherd boy," said the villagers, "when there's no wolf!" They went grumbling back down the hill.

Later, the boy sang out again, "Wolf! Wolf! The wolf is chasing the sheep!" To his naughty delight, he watched the villagers run up the hill to help him drive the wolf away.

When the villagers saw no wolf they sternly said, "Save your frightened song for when there is really something wrong! Don't cry 'wolf' when there is NO wolf!"

But the boy just grinned and watched them go grumbling down the hill once more.

Later, he saw a REAL wolf prowling about his flock. Alarmed, he leaped to his feet and sang out as loudly as he could, "Wolf! Wolf!"

But the villagers thought he was trying to fool them again, and so they didn't come.

At sunset, everyone wondered why the shepherd boy hadn't returned to the village with their sheep. They went up the hill to find the boy. They found him weeping.

"There really was a wolf here! The flock has scattered! I cried out, "Wolf!" Why didn't you come?"

An old man tried to comfort the boy as they walked back to the village.

"We'll help you look for the lost sheep in the morning," he said, putting his arm around the youth, "Nobody believes a liar...even when he is telling the truth!"

 

  The human person will not be on alert for a danger that is not apparent. 

Goldfish

Avatar for xxxs
Community Leader
Registered: 01-25-2010
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 10:13pm

Well, of course we, aren't we? If you want to claim the NCAA overstepped it's boundaries in this situation, and they are there to protect the athletes .... well, gee, I am not sure how you can claim this has nothing to do with the athletes. The violation was against athletes.

  No it was not.  Not college athletes.

Ok, so, if we go with this, how to expect them to regulate anything if they unable to handle disciplinary actions?

  This is a criminal action falling under the laws of the state of Pennsylvania. 

Google NCAA read their website.

Goldfish

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 8:47pm

xxxs, I am not talking about legal procedures. I am speaking of procedures within the administration. All I am saying is back in 1998, regardless of the outcome of that investigation, I would think everyone involved would have been on high alert. And, in that sense, if the procedures weren't sufficient, the administration certainly could have devised stricter regulations at that time. It's really insufficient for someone today to claim someone in 1998 followed procedure.

I just don't think it's enough for anyone to say they followed procedure and then, turn their backs.

Punishing the present day students,coaches,players and alumni is unjust.

I don't know any other way to handle the situation considering the time it took for everything to come to knowledge and for the courts to see it through.

I just don't think the penalties are all that unrealistic considering the circumstances.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 8:40pm

Your link didn't work for me, but everything I've read states the NCAA is there to protect athletes.

But in this discussion we are not talking about college athletes

Well, of course we, aren't we? If you want to claim the NCAA overstepped it's boundaries in this situation, and they are there to protect the athletes .... well, gee, I am not sure how you can claim this has nothing to do with the athletes. The violation was against athletes.

They are a regulatory body. that governs intercollegiate athletics.

Ok, so, if we go with this, how to expect them to regulate anything if they unable to handle disciplinary actions?

Avatar for xxxs
Community Leader
Registered: 01-25-2010
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 3:17pm

I think that there is a misunderstanding of what the NCAA is.  They are a regulatory body. that governs intercollegiate athletics.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/about+the

They do not "protect" athletes.  But in this discussion we are not talking about college athletes; except that they are being punished for transactions that are out of their control.

Goldfish

Avatar for xxxs
Community Leader
Registered: 01-25-2010
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 2:45pm

As far as I know the charges of 1998 were dropped.  The new charges stuck.  But that is for the laws of Pennsylvania to decide.  AS I am not a lawyer in Pa. There may be many reasons for the difference in the two allegations.  As it is I believe that we must be by the rule of law not that of the mob or emotional out pouring.  There are procedures in the enforcement of law as there are in any criminal or civil case.  If there are problems with the procedures then those problems must be addressed in the here and now and new procedures installed.  As it is we the public do not know the details of those procedures.  It is not for us to judge whether or not the procedures in place at the time were followed correctly.  Everything is mere conjecture. 

   It is not uncommon for procedures to be updated or revised.  We do not have all the facts yet laid out.  Years may pass before the whole factual story comes out. 

 The NCAA has a lot of inconsistent rulings.  This is a power expansion NOT in the written charter to the best of my knowledge.  Application of "punishment" is inconsistent with fairness.  Punishing the present day students,coaches,players and alumni is unjust. 

  We as a people who defend the legal system must allow that system to run it's course.  Emotion is not the same as established facts.  If the procedures were properly followed then it is the procedures that may need changing.  

Goldfish

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 12:36pm

Well, isn't extortion illegal?

If you want to defend the universities  procedures, then clearly, their procedures failed.

Ya know, you keep going back to 1998 and as I said, it doesn't matter. Allegations, dropped charges, the administration still went on without implementing any changes to their procedure. So, in essence, they turned their backs on all those students.

I seriously do not understand your defense that they followed procedure. If it's a lousy procedure, well, now they pay the price for their lousy procedure.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 12:28pm

I don't disagree that the ADMINISTRATION should have been on high alert after the 1998 incident, but to say that the entire school is responsible (even somewhat) is a huge stretch.

Yes, in previous posts I uses the word "administration" with no response. So, I changed it up and I guess, at least, I got a reaction from someone. But, sorry, I would think understanding what is being discussed, the comment wasn't addressed to the students.

I think, unfortunately, the decisions adults made at this school, does effect the students.

 but if the school had made a general/public announcement to all students & residents about these DROPPED charges I think they could have been hit with defamation of character charges?!?! 

That is not what is being suggested. The adults, being on high alert, has nothing to do with announcing it the public.

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Well, I doubt you would ask this question if your child was molested. And again, being on alert, doesn't mean you assume someone is guilty. And charges being dropped may very well mean there wasn't enough evidence. It doesn't mean the person is innocent.  But, it does mean you take the situation seriously and maybe implement rules and procedures that will protect both the students and the accused.

I think proper punishment is found in the criminal justice system -

I completely disagree. The "administration" has a responsibility to these students. The NCAA has a responsibility to all players. They have every right to punish as they see fit. Isn't it their purpose ... to protect athletes?

 



Avatar for xxxs
Community Leader
Registered: 01-25-2010
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 12:19pm

To add to what Newlywed2010 wrote:

 

The NCAA overstepped it's mandate period.  It is none of it's business.  The legal system is there for a reason.  We do not need nor want two systems.  This entire thing needs to be in the courts not some extralegal extortion.  Yes, that is what I said extortion. Destroying is not building.  Unless there is a miracle the team will take a decade to recover.  The city,state,university and the professors as well as the students will suffer. 

  Extorting millions of dollars under the guise of "punishment" is an despicable act.  There is a responsibility to find the truth however, there is a responsibility to abide by the law.  The allegations of 1998 were DROPPED.  The head coach is not a trained investigator.  That is not his job.  He as I have read is required to report it to his boss (most large universities have their own police).  In hindsight people often forget the realities of that moment. 

  Mob behaviour is the problem here and the grab for power by the NCAA.

Goldfish

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