Death Penalty for Penn State?

Avatar for cmkristy
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2005
Death Penalty for Penn State?
69
Thu, 07-12-2012 - 5:11pm

There was this big, respected university with an iconic legend as its football coach.

It also had a pedophile operating in its program.

School officials knew this back in 1998 and covered it up.

They chose this “humane” route of covering up, turning their backs and protecting themselves rather than kids for more than a decade as boys went on being raped in the campus showers and on football trips. They did this because it benefited them, was easier for them and protected what they valued most — the football program.

Penn State should get death penalty- http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-should-lose-football-privileges-dealth-penalty-in-wake-of-freeh-report-child-sex-abuse-071212

 

The author goes on to say that she believes the football program needs to come to an end at this time, partly because it will send a strong message to other schools and institutions.  She also says "A big reason this was allowed to happen was because the whole economy of Penn State was football. If you take that away, they might learn."

Do you agree?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Wed, 08-01-2012 - 5:06pm

I know, you've made your position perfectly clear. :smileyhappy: Sorry, I don't buy it. Once this was reported, there was a red flag that was continued to be ignored for years. Just because they were not part of the physical act, does not mean the school did not have a duty to look out for the welfare of all the students.

What punishment do you see as being fit?

Avatar for xxxs
Community Leader
Registered: 01-25-2010
Wed, 08-01-2012 - 5:21pm

First punish the guilty.  Let the criminal justce run it's course.  The NCAA has no business in this arena.  The current team members,coaches were not around so they should not be punished. 

chaika

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 9:21am

I guess I was looking for something more specific and maybe you already answered more specifically along the way, idk.

How do you feel people today are being punished? I don't know how that can be completely avoided considering this all took some time to get through the court system. Todays students and athletes are bound to feel some of the effects.

And how can you not hold the entire school somewhat responsible? Like I've said, the reporting years ago should have put everyone on high alert. The fact it continued shows otherwise.

What parts of the punishment are you opposed to and again, what do you think a proper punishment would be?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-06-2010
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 11:20am
ommy94 wrote:

I guess I was looking for something more specific and maybe you already answered more specifically along the way, idk.

How do you feel people today are being punished? I don't know how that can be completely avoided considering this all took some time to get through the court system. Todays students and athletes are bound to feel some of the effects.

The people today are being punished in numerous ways.  The football team is being dismantaled by the NCAA allowing current players to transfer to other schools - they've already lost 1 of their best players.  This hurts the remaining players by making the team less competitive and potentially bringing in less fans & NFL scouts.  Future football players/students are hurt by the reduction of scholarships since less players can play on scholarship at Penn State....again, bringing in a less competitive football team for the next 4 years.  State College becomes the 3rd largest city in PA on game days....if you take away the competitiveness of the team it is a likely result that the game attendance will drop and this will have a negative impact on the entire community (restaurants, shops, hotels, etc.).  Not to mention that the football program is self-funding and also provides a majority of the funding for the other sports at Penn State....if revenues drop (as they likely will) this could be detrimental to the other sport programs at the school.

And how can you not hold the entire school somewhat responsible? Like I've said, the reporting years ago should have put everyone on high alert. The fact it continued shows otherwise.

I don't disagree that the ADMINISTRATION should have been on high alert after the 1998 incident, but to say that the entire school is responsible (even somewhat) is a huge stretch.  You mean to say that the students at the school should have been made aware of the 1998 allegations and been on alert for a (suspected) pedophile among them?  What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Sure, the faculty could have been alerted to the situation, but if the school had made a general/public announcement to all students & residents about these DROPPED charges I think they could have been hit with defamation of character charges?!?! 

What parts of the punishment are you opposed to and again, what do you think a proper punishment would be?

I'm opposed to the retraction of wins from 1998-2011, the loss of bowl eligibility for 4 years and the reduction of scholarships for 4 years

I'm OK with the fine, especially since the money is being directed to charities that support child abuse and helping victims of child abuse.  Though i don't think this fine should have come from the NCAA.

I think proper punishment is found in the criminal justice system -

1) Jerry Sandusky is behind bars

2) Gary Shultz & Tim Curley are facing perjury charges for lying during the grand jury testimony

3) if reporting of child molestation is mandated for people in these positions and they are found to have violated that mandate then jail time or removal from position is fit (which ever the approved course of action is for dealing with failure to report)

4) the victims are going to sue the school for "pain & suffering" and will likely win big

These are ways that the "guilty parties" can be punished without punishing and entire student population and town.  Punishing the individuals for their acts makes sense.....and punishing the university through fines & negative press will hopefully force it to change its policies in the future.  But the NCAA overstepped when it crushed the football program.....

 

 

 

Avatar for xxxs
Community Leader
Registered: 01-25-2010
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 12:19pm

To add to what Newlywed2010 wrote:

 

The NCAA overstepped it's mandate period.  It is none of it's business.  The legal system is there for a reason.  We do not need nor want two systems.  This entire thing needs to be in the courts not some extralegal extortion.  Yes, that is what I said extortion. Destroying is not building.  Unless there is a miracle the team will take a decade to recover.  The city,state,university and the professors as well as the students will suffer. 

  Extorting millions of dollars under the guise of "punishment" is an despicable act.  There is a responsibility to find the truth however, there is a responsibility to abide by the law.  The allegations of 1998 were DROPPED.  The head coach is not a trained investigator.  That is not his job.  He as I have read is required to report it to his boss (most large universities have their own police).  In hindsight people often forget the realities of that moment. 

  Mob behaviour is the problem here and the grab for power by the NCAA.

chaika

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 12:28pm

I don't disagree that the ADMINISTRATION should have been on high alert after the 1998 incident, but to say that the entire school is responsible (even somewhat) is a huge stretch.

Yes, in previous posts I uses the word "administration" with no response. So, I changed it up and I guess, at least, I got a reaction from someone. But, sorry, I would think understanding what is being discussed, the comment wasn't addressed to the students.

I think, unfortunately, the decisions adults made at this school, does effect the students.

 but if the school had made a general/public announcement to all students & residents about these DROPPED charges I think they could have been hit with defamation of character charges?!?! 

That is not what is being suggested. The adults, being on high alert, has nothing to do with announcing it the public.

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Well, I doubt you would ask this question if your child was molested. And again, being on alert, doesn't mean you assume someone is guilty. And charges being dropped may very well mean there wasn't enough evidence. It doesn't mean the person is innocent.  But, it does mean you take the situation seriously and maybe implement rules and procedures that will protect both the students and the accused.

I think proper punishment is found in the criminal justice system -

I completely disagree. The "administration" has a responsibility to these students. The NCAA has a responsibility to all players. They have every right to punish as they see fit. Isn't it their purpose ... to protect athletes?

 



iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 12:36pm

Well, isn't extortion illegal?

If you want to defend the universities  procedures, then clearly, their procedures failed.

Ya know, you keep going back to 1998 and as I said, it doesn't matter. Allegations, dropped charges, the administration still went on without implementing any changes to their procedure. So, in essence, they turned their backs on all those students.

I seriously do not understand your defense that they followed procedure. If it's a lousy procedure, well, now they pay the price for their lousy procedure.

Avatar for xxxs
Community Leader
Registered: 01-25-2010
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 2:45pm

As far as I know the charges of 1998 were dropped.  The new charges stuck.  But that is for the laws of Pennsylvania to decide.  AS I am not a lawyer in Pa. There may be many reasons for the difference in the two allegations.  As it is I believe that we must be by the rule of law not that of the mob or emotional out pouring.  There are procedures in the enforcement of law as there are in any criminal or civil case.  If there are problems with the procedures then those problems must be addressed in the here and now and new procedures installed.  As it is we the public do not know the details of those procedures.  It is not for us to judge whether or not the procedures in place at the time were followed correctly.  Everything is mere conjecture. 

   It is not uncommon for procedures to be updated or revised.  We do not have all the facts yet laid out.  Years may pass before the whole factual story comes out. 

 The NCAA has a lot of inconsistent rulings.  This is a power expansion NOT in the written charter to the best of my knowledge.  Application of "punishment" is inconsistent with fairness.  Punishing the present day students,coaches,players and alumni is unjust. 

  We as a people who defend the legal system must allow that system to run it's course.  Emotion is not the same as established facts.  If the procedures were properly followed then it is the procedures that may need changing.  

chaika

Avatar for xxxs
Community Leader
Registered: 01-25-2010
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 3:17pm

I think that there is a misunderstanding of what the NCAA is.  They are a regulatory body. that governs intercollegiate athletics.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/about+the

They do not "protect" athletes.  But in this discussion we are not talking about college athletes; except that they are being punished for transactions that are out of their control.

chaika

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Thu, 08-02-2012 - 8:40pm

Your link didn't work for me, but everything I've read states the NCAA is there to protect athletes.

But in this discussion we are not talking about college athletes

Well, of course we, aren't we? If you want to claim the NCAA overstepped it's boundaries in this situation, and they are there to protect the athletes .... well, gee, I am not sure how you can claim this has nothing to do with the athletes. The violation was against athletes.

They are a regulatory body. that governs intercollegiate athletics.

Ok, so, if we go with this, how to expect them to regulate anything if they unable to handle disciplinary actions?

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