The Mental Illness Dilemna

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
The Mental Illness Dilemna
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Wed, 08-01-2012 - 10:51am

Advocates for the mentally ill are faced with a deep dilemma each time extreme and deadly crimes are perpetrated by those with a mental illness. Obviously, such acts are not sane or normal; it beggars common sense to suggest that a person who is thinking straight would choose to kill or wound dozens of strangers. And yet most mentally ill people — even those with conditions that have been linked to violence, such as addictions and schizophrenia — are no threat to anyone other than themselves.

[continued]

For the mentally ill, who might be seen as canaries in this coal mine, stigma serves to wall them off from the social support and medical care that are necessary to spur recovery and prevent illness from leading to tragedy. As a society, we need to understand that risk does not equal destiny — and that believing it does is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s not wrong to see schizophrenia as a disease or even to appreciate its association with violence, but to view people with schizophrenia as hopeless can in some cases worsen their course unnecessarily.

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2012/07/31/mass-murder-and-mental-illness-the-interplay-of-stigma-culture-and-disease/?iid=hl-article-mostpop1#ixzz22J3U2hHn

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Sat, 08-11-2012 - 11:19am

I suspect that this quote is the one that got me off track:

I think patience, resiliency and tolerance are something you are born with. They are personality traits or, I should say, all are influenced by one's intelligence and personality traits.. Both are ingrained in us.

I am not sure how this got you off track? I believe this was in response to Jams .... who used the three; patience, tolerance, and resiliency together .. and yes, I do believe all are effected by one's intelligence and personality traits. I do believe a patient person will show more tolerance and resiliency. 

I think, since this was written, it's been explained over and over again though. LOL ... yes, I do believe some people are more resilient then others .... naturally. 

Again, not really sure what threw you off, I should say, all are influenced by one's intelligence and personality traits.. Both are ingrained in us.

I do believe that .... Some children are more resilient then others. Some children will bounce back from a divorce, more efficiently then others, which was being discussed. If I were to get a divorce, I probably would not assume "children are resilient". I would look at the individual traits of each child before making that assumption.

But then again, most of who we are, IMO, is determined by innate and environmental factors. So, yes, in that context, I do believe patience, tolerance, and ability to be resilient are effected by who we are (innate) ad environmental factors.

I think after this post, we started discussing psychological definitions of resiliency. Otherwise, being flexible, easy going, impatient .... oh, I gave the list pages ago, are yes, innate qualities in a person. oh, oh ... also effected by environment.

Is that easier to understand?

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Sat, 08-11-2012 - 10:56am

In subsequent posts you clarified, I think, that by "developing" you meant "diagnosing". Later you clarified that IYO parents do not cause mental illness.

No, I think you are taking separate topics or context and melting them together.

I brought up the parents role when discussing adopted children. The rest of my thoughts were never developed because the discussion, by then, had blended into something else.

I never said parents cause mental illness ... did I? I do believe there's also been a debate of genetics vs environment. Again, another subtopic. I would think ultimately, if one believes you can only have a mental illness through a genetic link, then parents or environment cannot be the cause. If one believes both, environment and genetics, plays a role ... then yes, how we parent impacts our children's mental health. I think at this point .. you decided that meant "caused". But, I don't think ever used the word "cause" but honestly, maybe I did and just don't remember.

At one point, when I pointed this out, you claimed you were writing to others reading and not responding. You wanted it clear for them.

OK .... then you separated garden variety mental illness from adhd, schizophrenia and such ... and yes, I do believe the parents perception definitely could play a role in the diagnosing of adhd ... being an accurate dx or inaccurate dx. I do believe a parents lifestyle can impact a child's behavior.

I think the way our world plays out is not textbook. There are so many variables and biases to be considered.

So, another subtopic came into play .... the Vanderbilt scale. And yes, it's considered reliable, but IME, on it's own, it's not a reliable source, unless the symptoms are very clear. IME, that isn't always the case. Usually, you will see a variant in answers person to person, perception to perception.

OK ... so, when people, or you want to make it clear parents do not "cause" these diseases ... good point, but I also think parents need to be aware and educated on how they influence their children's mental health.

Similarly, some of your posts led me to believe that your opinion was that resilience is more nature than nurture. It is now sounding like I misinterpreted your posts - again. I am curious as to how I got confused about the trait, innate thing.

Couldn't tell ya. I even posted an article reaffirming, the best I could, what my thoughts were.

But, it's kind of funny, because one of my first comments was ... resiliency isn't a trait, it's a process so, again, I am not sure why you are confused. I felt the more I said it wasn't a trait, the more you kept saying I said it was. :smileyvery-happy:

So again, the ability to be resilient is both effected by who we are (traits) and what our environment is. Even if you want to teach resiliency, some children will take to it more then others. And then you want to throw in day to day stresses, when the example given, by another member, was divorce and military children. Again, no one suggested resiliency wasn't an important skill, but how a child handles day to day stresses is both impacted by innate qualities and learned skills. I do not believe it's strictly a learned skill.

I think resiliency is effected by a person's mental health or mental illness.

Full circle then goes back to the notion "children are resilient". We cannot predict how anyone will react to life's stress. But, a child who clearly cannot get over day to day stresses, I would think clearly shows some signs of trouble concerning their mental health.

 



iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Fri, 08-10-2012 - 2:26pm

In an earlier paragraph you said: My original reading focused on the underlined bits.

Maybe you can explain how you would teach resiliency to a classroom of children? Because I thought I already said why I think it would be difficult to form a curriculum around it. How would handle individual differences among students? How would you get caregivers on board? Most schools I have experience have counselors to help children deal with any major life changes. There's counselors for children who are having a difficult time handling any type of stress. For all students, they form social groups, use self esteem building techniques, teach tolerance, respect and patience, they teach children to identify feelings, how to problem solve, reduce stress to some degree, how to handle conflicts with classmates ..... what would you add to that?

What I read led me to believe that you didn't think resilience could be taught in schools and that only managing a serious, individual stress was reasonable.

I see now that II missed this bit altogether:

For all students, they form social groups, use self esteem building techniques, teach children to identify feelings, how to problem solve, reduce stress to some degree, how to handle conflicts with classmates ..... what would you add to that?

I wouldn't add much to that - I think all those things build resilience, I am pleasantly surprised that schools have programs like that.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Fri, 08-10-2012 - 2:04pm

Jambles, I finally got around to reading the link, here's a snip-it that stood out to me. Thanks for sharing.

To manage stress, Anderson said, people should try to remove themselves from the stressful situation if possible. When that doesn't work, the solutions have to be internal, such as practicing relaxation techniques, exercising and prioritizing sleep. The key, Anderson said, is to tackle one manageable goal at a time.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Fri, 08-10-2012 - 1:52pm

I suspect that this quote is the one that got me off track:

I think patience, resiliency and tolerance are something you are born with. They are personality traits or, I should say, all are influenced by one's intelligence and personality traits.. Both are ingrained in us.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Fri, 08-10-2012 - 1:48pm

From an earlier post:

 I was pondering the roll of parenting skills plays in a child developing a mental illness.... Although I don't think it fair to blame mental illness on the parent, I would also like to ponder to contribution a parent plays in a child's mental health.

In subsequent posts you clarified, I think, that by "developing" you meant "diagnosing". Later you clarified that IYO parents do not cause mental illness.

Your original post as written confused me, whether that was lack of clarity on your part or me leaping to conclusions, is uncertain. A little of each I guess.

Similarly, some of your posts led me to believe that your opinion was that resilience is more nature than nurture. It is now sounding like I misinterpreted your posts - again. I am curious as to how I got confused about the trait, innate thing.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Fri, 08-10-2012 - 9:01am

Who considers resiliency to be an innate trait? You keep saying this, but I am not sure where you are getting this information from.

I would consider traits to be things like (not limited to), dependable, cautious, outgoing, objective, demanding, honest, organized, self confident, people pleaser, humorous, serious, picky, dependable, introvert, competent, impatient .... ok, so, that names a few. I would think how (naturally) resilient one is, is greatly influenced by these traits.

lol ... I think we've both be saying to be resilient isn't a trait, but you keep telling me you disagree with me, but then say, "it's not a trait".

And I think, even after reading my last post and post it was in respinse to, you are still only commenting on whether or not resiliency is a trait. Again, I never said it was .. if others feel that way, you are addressing the wrong person.

The article was in response to teaching resiliency in schools and how bad things happen all the time. So, yes, again, "bad things" is a purely subjective concept and yes, most people handle "bad things" without become overwhelmed. From a psychological standpoint, resilency isn't measured until stressors, say, become overwhelming for an individual. Meaning, they are not being resilient, at that moment in time. So, as far as "teaching" as in currriculum, it is very hard to teach the above to students, for one thing, without support from home and two, until something truly stresses a child, can they pull upon those coping skills to see them through it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-17-2003
Fri, 08-10-2012 - 8:54am

I am not sure what you mean? Are others not allowed to post information? Are we allowed allowed to post information once? I don't get it.

 It's neither to challenge you to dispute you or agree with you. It's just information. Many posts come across as feeling challenged rather then just having a conversation. I think most of your posts are saying the same thing, but you keep opposing mine. I thought possibly posting something from a source would give you a better understanding of what I was trying to say ... because, as I said, you keep disputing things I never said. :smileyhappy:  Which I can only assume I am not being clear in my own words.

btw, the link was to an article, not just a definition.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Thu, 08-09-2012 - 1:29pm

Ommy: I guess, truthfully, I do not agree with much of what you've said on resiliency..

The link you post was a good summary of my views on resiliency, so what are our differences?

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2006
Thu, 08-09-2012 - 1:18pm

I think what was being questioned was whether or not resiliency can be an innate quality or if it's strictly learned.

I would consider "an innate quality" to be a trait. If resiliency is considered by some to be an innate quality, I would think that they believe that resiliency is a trait.

What does it mean if resiliency is an innate qualify but not a trait?

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