Hard work = $250,000 ?
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| Fri, 10-24-2008 - 9:07am |
I’ve read repeatedly that the $250,000 is hard earned money that the government has no right to tax. Personally, I don’t believe that hard work consistently results in high salaries and I’m not convinced that people who make more money work harder or deserve more than most people. Most people, I believe, do work hard and most people are rewarded with 25,000 – 45,000 salary. Not all some hard workers make more and some make less. What do you think? Is the Just World view valid?
http://www.princeton.edu/~rbenabou/beliefs7csend.pdf
most people have a strong need to believe that they live in a world that is just, in the sense that people generally get what they deserve, and deserve what they get. When confronted with data that contradicts this view they try hard to ignore, reinterpret, distort, or forget it —for instance by finding imaginary merits to the recipients of fortuitous rewards, or assigning blame to innocent victims.
Because of their imperfect willpower, individuals constantly strive to motivate themselves (or their children) towards effort, educational investment, perseverance in the face of adversity, and away from the slippery slope of idleness, welfare dependency, crime, drugs, etc. This is another recurrent finding from the sociological evidence. In such circumstances, maintaining somewhat rosy beliefs about the fact that everyone will ultimately get their “just deserts” can be very valuable. Furthermore, if enough individuals end up with the view that economic success is highly dependent on effort, they will ultimately represent a pivotal voting block, and set a low tax rate. Conversely, when individuals anticipate that society will carry out little redistribution, the costs of a deficient motivation to effort or savings are much higher than with high taxes and
a generous safety net. Each individual thus has greater incentives to maintain his belief that effort ultimately pays, and consequently more voters end up with such a world view.
For instance, data from the World Values Survey shows that only 29% of Americans believe that the poor are trapped in poverty, and only 30% that luck, rather than effort or education, determines income. The figures for Europeans are nearly double: 60% and 54% respectively. Similarly, Americans are more than twice as likely as Europeans to think that the poor are lazy (60% versus 26%).
Indeed, 59% of Americans agree or strongly agree that “in the long run, hard work usually brings a better life”; this view commands much less support in Europe, ranging from 34% in Sweden to 43% in Germany.
Is the “American dream,” according to our theory, just a self-sustaining collective illusion?


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I think you mean needle-exchange, not needle-sharing right?
E.G., http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE7DF1238F934A35755C0A96F948260&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Don't you think that treatment for drug addiction and ultimately, for AIDS would cost the tax payers a lot more than simply providing clean needles? I agree that strategy seems strange on the surface, but what if not doing it means that MORE tax dollars go to drug users, which is not what you want?
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It sounds like you really believe in the "just" world view that the OP is talking about. If our life is a choice, then we really do get what we deserve? Do you really believe that we all have the ability to do anything we want in life? That is a nice sentiment, and its one my parents told me when I was 4, but do you REALLY think that's true?
"but do you REALLY think that's true?"
KAREN
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since we agree as you said that that increasing the tax on the rich won't cure this....
here's my thought on one solution....and it takes this thread in another direction...
if you want to increase the pay to workers who perform less desirable jobs...we need to take away the population of people who are willing to work under the table, do these jobs for little pay, and be paid less than min wage (i am thinking illegals here)....
it all comes back to supply and demand.....if there are a lot of people who are willing to do a job....the job will pay less.... take away some of the people, and there will be less applicants, and as these jobs get harder to fill, the pay goes up.
if all illegal workers were phased out....there would be more room for citizens to find good jobs...and the jobs would pay more than they do currently.
~disclaimer~ before anyone freaks out about me being racist, etc...notice i said illegals...it is illegal...i don't care who you are, if you are working under the table, it is illegal!
-Kristen
I think you mean needle-exchange, not needle-sharing right?
Oops, right
E.G., http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE7DF1238F934A35755C0A96F948260&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Don't you think that treatment for drug addiction and ultimately, for AIDS would cost the tax payers a lot more than simply providing clean needles? I agree that strategy seems strange on the surface, but what if not doing it means that MORE tax dollars go to drug users, which is not what you want?
Yes, treatment would of course be more expensive
In actuality, I'm disgusted at the direction of this country in terms of a lack of individual accountability on many levels, and I see less push for more individual acountability coming from Obama
EVERYONE IS PAYING TOO MUCH TO CODDLE DEGENERATE THINKERS
I do not expect many liberals to agree with me on possible solutions, but I believe too much emphasis is placed on treatment/education in this country, when abiding by the "social contract" is more important
I do not have any tolerance for felons of any kind nor drug users, so I'm not keen on treatment either.
I do not see anything in Obama's approach to combatting drug usage that would "inspire" way more Americans to discard thoughts of usage...........I see a money pit.
Barack Obama on Drugs
Click here for 14 full quotes on Drugs OR other candidates on Drugs OR background on Drugs.
"we need to take away the population of people who are willing to work under the table, do these jobs for little pay, and be paid less than min wage (I am thinking illegals here)...."
I think I get where you are going with this.
Karen,
I think it is wonderful that you have been able to pick yourself up when knocked down and can take responsibility for your choices. I truly believe that personal responsibility is an important thing, so please try not to misunderstand me. My experiences have taught me that life is just not as simple as you are making it out to be.
My sister and mother both suffer from mental illness. My mother has depression and alcoholism. My sister has borderline personality disorder and suffers from serious delusions. Both struggle to hold down a job, because all the gumption in the world can't make their brains function correctly. If my sister didn't have gpvernment "handouts" and a family willing to practically bankrupt themselves to help her, then she would be one of the homeless on the street that many people despise as lazy. She has been in a mental hospital, and from seeing the other patients there, many who are homeless, I understand that being destitute is not always a matter of choice.
I think that personal responsibility is important, but the world is not completely "just." I think we have to accept that reality and its implications to society when making policy decisions.
I live in a very rural town myself, and my DH's family operates a farm.
That doesn't sound fair at all.
I would suggest that the world is "semi-just".
There are outliers
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