..."'If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen"

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-22-2000
..."'If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen"
56
Mon, 07-16-2012 - 10:30am

Are you serious????

This is where we are? The President of the United States makes this quote part of his reelection campaign?

America, if a majority buy into this, and do not reject it, the sun has set on us.

Sonny

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-30-2007
jamblessedthree wrote:
Lol, There are some things I don't miss about Ohio.. BTW, Bill Cunningham has been getting a lot of air time on Fox news, He is another weird Republican!

I couldn't stand Woody Hayes.    Just something about him.   I'm pretty sure every coach of OSU has been a Republican.   Anyone that knows me,  knows I love my Buckeye's.     Hey, what does anyone expect, Ohio is full of worthless nuts.   LOL

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-21-2006

Obama is clearly showing an expression of regret. It's really not debatable.

 So in your opinion  when he says, " In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive." to his audience, he's not regretful about this view of how Europe has been treated. He's proud of it? He's indifferent about it? He's stating his opinion, but he doesn't regret that they were treated that way, so he's just informing them in a flippant way?    No, you and I both know it's being said in a tone of regret and remorse. To try to say that's it's something different is ludicrous!

shell

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2009

You:  ".....hopefully Romney didn't apologize for America and call us arrogant"

My response:  "....when we screw up as we certainly did by invading Iraq, an apology is the very least which ought to be offered."

Bush ought to apologize for Iraq but  likely he never will. 

Toby Keith has rights of free speech and can say what he wants but words alone don't make a patriot

If somebody says a speech, action, or person is jingoistic, it's not a compliment. Here's the Merriam Webster definition:

jin·go·ism noun \ˈjiŋ-(ˌ)gō-ˌi-zəm\
 
Definition of JINGOISM
: extreme chauvinism or nationalism marked especially by a belligerent foreign policy
jin·go·ist noun or adjective
jin·go·is·tic adjective
jin·go·is·ti·cal·ly adverb

Examples of JINGOISM
  1. When the war began many people were caught up in a wave of jingoism.
  2. <his loudmouthed jingoism will not win us any foreign allies>

 

My POV--patriotism is a lot like humility.  When you go around claiming you are, you're not. 

I took your comments* about AP questioning their veracity, integrity, and scrupulous standards on the Romney/Bain piece as an attack on the "legitimacy" of their reporting.  Who knew that there was no such intent...... 

*Below are exact quotes from you:

....what they were reporting as "fact" was nothing more than hearsay

It's not my "supposition" that there are no "facts" in that AP story that substantiate that Romeny [sic]was in an active role at Bain after 1999. They're just not there 

The authors of the article posted have no credible sources, that's why they didn'[t sic] name them . It was an article full of speculaion [sic] confided to the authors by faceless people, who probably don't exist.

....it is my opinion that true journalism doesn't exist any longer. The AP certainly has had some problems with reporting news that was later deemed to be false or a hoax.

 

Jabberwocka

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-21-2006

Toby Keith is a patriot, Do a little research before you dismiss him based on words alone. You'll find that his actions, songs and speech confirm that he is a true patriot. In his own words, his motto is  "I support the troops". I am saddened by those who have an antithesis view to his.

The word you used was "jingoistic",which means "frantically patriotic, flag waving". It's ashamed that some would not consider that a compliment. We embrace being frantically patriotic.

I never questioned the credibility of the AP. My beef was with the article itself, evidenced by the statements of mine that you pasted.. Clearly, the AP has no issue approving human interest pieces and allowing the reader to decide for themselves the validity of the facts. Some readers will believe whatever they read and others will question with discernment everything they read. The AP gives that autonomy to its readers.

You write. " My POV--patriotism is a lot like humility. When you go around claiming you are, you're not.

I am impressed that you are willing to admit to this generalization and verbalize it.

In our family, we are patriotic. We have taught our children to be patriotic. We fly our American flag daily and feel indebted to those who risk their lives for our freedom, thanking them every chance we get. We believe in outwardly showing our patriotism. Your prejudicious statement, '--patriotism is a lot like humility. When you go around claiming you are, you're not." , is just plain wrong. It saddens us that some Americans feel this way. Obama claims to be patriotic, but you reject that?

I think this may be your most enlightening post. I have enjoyed reading it and responding to it.

shell

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-21-2006

So you think he stated it as fact with no remorse. He was indifferent, so he doesn't think it was wrong? I am shocked that you don't think that he thought what he verbalized was wrong. He was stating the "facts" and was proud of them. You say he is telling the "truth and it hurts', but he isn't even the least bit remorseful about it ? He is in agreement with it, glad it happened and feels no remorse about it at all?

How ridiculous!!!!!!! It was an apology. Of course he said it in a remorseful tone, other wise it would have been pompous and smug. You can't have it both ways. Either is was a statement that America had been wrong in their attitude and he felt bad about it or he was just reminding them of it and couldn't care less. Which was it?

Why are you reluctant to call it what it was?

shell

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2009

Got it. 

Patriotism is mostly words and flag flying*.  

AP is a legitimate news source except for those stories with which you personally disagree.

You also have the ability to change the tone and definitions of words to suit your preconceptions.

In other words, your opinion matters more than just about anything else.  Not much to debate then. 

*Since the early 2000's, Toby Keith has made a very good living off that definition.  Like John McCain, he's found it easy to be brave while others are protecting his you-know-what in combat zones.  What's more, he becomes a rather bizarre mixture of boasting and defensive, when that fact is pointed out.  "If I've got a guy who's popping off going, 'Oh, you do all this troop stuff, but you ain't ever enlisted' ... I didn't. There wasn't a draft, but my dad did, and I've been on the front line a lot. I've been on some bases on some front lines that a lot of enlisted people haven't. I have soldiers and marines [ask me], 'Where'd you go?' And I'll tell them, and they'll go, 'Dang, I didn't even go up there!' And they'll ask me questions: 'Was it dangerous? What did it look like? How far from air support were you?' And these are guys wearing uniforms right now. I don't look at that as a service as much as I look at it [as] an adventure for me. I get to go do stuff nobody gets to do. I get to take pictures and see the world that even TV cameras don't get to see sometimes."  As the wife, mother, and daughter of military veterans, I am underwhelmed. 

Jabberwocka

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2009

How does one proclaim my POV wrong? It's my point of view, my opinion. Be sad, if you wish. Disagree, if you wish. But don't ever presume that your opinion or that of another with whom you agree is "right" or as in an earlier post "correct"; while others who do not agree are "wrong".

That mindset is disastrous in debate.

 

Jabberwocka

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-21-2006

Your definition of patriotism:  "Patriotism is mostly words and flag flying*. You are entitled to any definition you choose. I subscribe to a more detailed definition and consider your definition to be more of a display of patriotism, rather than patriotism itself, but each to his own.

As I have said many times, the onus is on the reader to determine the validity of any information received (read, heard, etc.) and to measure it against what they already know to be true. To use the mentality which you defend , one would accept everything printed by the AP as absolute truth without question. Some might call that gullible.

You don't have to like Toby Keith. It's your prerogative. I consider him to be a good singer, song writer, performer and patriot. You can sing along to the Dixie Chicks and I'll not criticize it, even though I don't care for them.

You fail to give "credit" to the quoted material about Toby Keith. A rather bizarre omission for a journalist.  I'm sure that it was unintentional and that you'll edited in the source.

I hope you and your family have a nice Saturday and enjoy the day.

shell

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-21-2006

 "My POV--patriotism is a lot like humility. When you go around claiming you are, you're not."

It's a prejudice POV. A sweeping generalization about those who display, claim, state their patriotism by words, actions, emblems (like a lapel pin), etc.. Perhaps my wording was a bit confusing. Your POV is your POV. The premise of your  generalization," that those who say they are patriotic, are not", is wrong,(in my opinion) as evidenced by many patriots I know, who are not ashamed to embrace and announce their patriotism. I personally, though, find it sad when a group of people are prejudged based on someone's preconceived notions about them. You have every right to have that POV and state it.

Debate is all about discussing opposing POV's.

Debate:To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.

I think it would be a pretty boring debate if I considered your POV's to be correct and you considered mine to be correct. That would be a discussion about things we agree on, not a debate.

shell

 

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-21-2006

So, your proposing that Obama stated it, but did not think it was not wrong to treat Europe in that manner? He doesn't regret it? He thinks it was okay to do? That's your POV?

If you listen to the speech on youtube, you'll hear that the tone of his voice is that of regret. He's certainly not telling them that this is how he thinks they were treated and he agrees with it and finds it acceptable. He's clearly trying to make ammends.

It's suppose to be pretty nice here, too, although we had wicked storms last night. I think we are going to head out onto the beach and pray that the jelly fish stay away!

You, too, have a nice weekend.

shell

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