..."'If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen"

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-22-2000
..."'If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen"
56
Mon, 07-16-2012 - 10:30am

Are you serious????

This is where we are? The President of the United States makes this quote part of his reelection campaign?

America, if a majority buy into this, and do not reject it, the sun has set on us.

Sonny

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2009

My definition of patriotism is far far far from words and flag flying.  There are people who get mighty hung up on the trappings of patriotism and mistake those trappings as "patriotism" on a par with the courage, sacrifice and dedication that true patriots display.   They are not equal. 

I have never said that AP prints the absolute truth without question.  Journalists, even with the best will in the world, don't KNOW the whole or absolute truth but the best do try to tease out the truth.  Continuing to belabor a mistaken belief that if a source is not specifically named, the story is not credible, is a non sequitur and shows a lack of knowledge regarding journalism.  Just isn't worth my time to try to correct anymore.  One does not reason with a brick wall. 

My source for the Toby Keith quote:  http://www.theboot.com/2009/11/03/toby-keith-military/

Jabberwocka

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-21-2006

It's hard to for you to adequately "make your point" because you have to keep going back to the fact that you are totally relying on the AP's ability to have gotten it right.  It has nothing to do with a "knowledge regarding journalism", which in my opinion has become a myth, but more to do with the reader's ability to analyze and process information on his own rather than have others do it for him. I'll think for myself. I don't need a journalist or anyone to do that for me. In my opinion, named sources, dates and documents sited by a reputable news outlet carry more weight than unnamed sources sited by another reputable news source. You write "Continuing to belabor a mistaken belief that if a source is not specifically named, the story is not credible, is a non sequitur and shows a lack of knowledge regarding journalism."  No it is not a non sequitur, the premise is and has always been  that  "a source not specifically named" can not refute information that has already been validated by named sources and other evidence.  "If "knowledge of journalism" means the inability to measure what you know to be true against presented information and make an informed decision, then you're right, I'm not a journalist and understand why the current belief that, journalism is dead, is prevalent.  Of course, I never claimed to be a journalist. My degrees are in the field of science and management.

I would concur that what you write is included in the definition of patriotism. I would also add that in my opinion, Toby Keith shows dedication and sacrifice in his support of our troops/country, if by no other measure than the 180 USO concerts he has performed for our soldiers. I read the article to which you linked and I enjoyed it. It shows his dedication, respect and courage. My understanding from what I have read, is that the soldiers enjoy his USO concerts and visits ( there certainly was a huge military turn-out here for him) and to me, that's what really matters.

Have a great Sunday.

ETA: This thread has ventured WAY off topic. This is my last post about the above topics. We can continue to debate them, if you want, but pehaps starting another thread would be helpful for those who might want to "jump in", but haven't kept up with this thread.

Photobucket
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-03-2009

Either hope springs eternal or I'm a glutton for punishment....

If journalists were forced to reveal the names of their sources on any material which quoted those sources, many of them would be up the proverbial creek without a paddle.  I repeat again, that an absence of specific name is NOT in any way, shape, or form, an indication of "hearsay".  In fact, journalists have gone to court and even jail to protect the names of their sources, sometimes because they feared retribution against those sources, sometimes because they were concerned that if they"squealed" (for lack of a better word), they would be left (to continue the metaphor) high and dry.  http://www.rcfp.org/jailed-journalists

Out of idle curiosity, what has Keith sacrificed?  He clearly enjoys certain aspects of what he does and I'm guessing that he also can probably count on increased revenues for the same reasons that any entertainer or writer makes tours--even if the appearance is free, increased exposure rarely hurts profits!  And it's not always free:  http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,SS_011504_USO,00.html

From my point of view, the issue is what it costs a person, either monetarily, physically, or mentally to take whatever action is considered "patriotic".  Words?  Less than nothing.  Flag pins?  Zilch.  Saluting?  Zero.   Hand over heart?  Nada.  Waving a flag?  Not much.  

 

Jabberwocka

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