His speech didn't really offend me. It just proved what I have always felt about Obama. All words...nothing behind it. His acceptance of Wright was predictable and it showed that he lacks good judgment IMO.
The race issue is obviously still an issue in America, but only because a handful of people can't let it go. Now before everyone jumps on me for saying that...let me say that I've heard many members of the black community say the same thing.
The only real reason race is an issue for me...is because as a white woman in America...I don't feel like I can say ANYTHING with regards to someone of another skin color (that includes blacks, hispanics, asians, etc) without being labeled racist. YET it's perfectly ok for a black preacher to say horrible things about my race in one of his sermons. We're supposed to accept that.
I don't think so.
We apparently have a long way to go...but Obama is not the guy to do it. He has lost a lot of credibility with people in his own political party. They don't want to touch him now. Funny how that works.
Anyhow, that's just my opinion. I'm sure we'll hear from others.
>>The only real reason race is an issue for me...is because as a white woman in America...I don't feel like I can say ANYTHING with regards to someone of another skin color (that includes blacks, hispanics, asians, etc) without being labeled racist. YET it's perfectly ok for a black preacher to say horrible things about my race in one of his sermons. We're supposed to accept that.<<
<<...I don't feel like I can say ANYTHING with regards to someone of another skin color (that includes blacks, hispanics, asians, etc) without being labeled racist. YET it's perfectly ok for a black preacher to say horrible things about my race in one of his sermons. We're supposed to accept that.>>
Yet is is perfectly okay to label a black preacher "racist"?
I try to stay out of these types of dicussions but I feel compelled to jump in here. Coopsmom, I'm honestly not trying to "jump down your throat" about your statement, but hoping to give you -- and others -- something to think about.
You say: "The race issue is obviously still an issue in America, but only because a handful of people can't let it go."
I think it's important to tell you there are FAR more than a handful of people keeping racism alive and well and living in America. But I also think it's important to note there is a distinct difference between "racism" and just plain "ignorance". While racism is ignorance...ignorance is not always racism. Ignorance, in it's purest sense, is merely a lack of knowledge. You don't know what you don't know. And ignorance, my dear is not confined to whites or blacks or any other race. Ignorance knows no such boundaries as race, religion, socio-economic status, etc. White people exhibit such ignorance when they make comments such as you made, but in your defense, other races exhibit the same ignorance when they take every comment made as some sort of slight because of their background - I believe black people are particularly prone to this sort of reaction. However, there is some understanding of that -- after all, there was a time -- a long time -- when it was not only okay to discrimate and make assumptions -- it was expected. I believe we've come a long way from that. But we -- blacks and whites -- have a long way to go. What was once blatant, you-know-what-your-dealing-with racism, how now morphed into a very quiet ignorance. That to me, is far more insidious because it's far harder to recognize -- in others and even harder in one's self.
You ask if you're supposed to accept negative comments made against white people from a black preacher (which I might add, as previously mentioned, I have seen no evidence of Rev. Wright having done). Yes..you are. But only as a means to look within and try and see what may have caused someone to say so. Just as blacks should accept that they are sometimes hypersensitive and every little thing is not about race. It is a hard thing for ANYONE to take a hard and relatively objective look at themselves. But until people begin to do so, things are not likely to change.
I also have to disagree that Obama's response showed a lack of judgment. Gotta disagree with you there. What he did was condemn the sin -- not the sinner. The word "mom" is part of your handle here, so I assume you have at least one child. Let's say your child said something horribly mean to another child -- something that really hurt the other child and you witnessed it. Would you disown your child? Completely distance yourself from him/her and never associate with them again? I doubt that you would. I would imagine that you would condemn your child's behavior, maybe even make them apologize. But you wouldn't just throw them out there on their own. That's basically what Obama did. He condemn Wright's ACTIONS....not Wright himself. Just as he condemned his white grandmother's behavior but not the woman. And Obama's ability to separate person from deed, IMO shows he is ABSOLUTELY the man to "do it". I don't know that that makes him the best choice for President -- my jury's still out on that matter -- but he certainly does have what it takes to begin the process of eradicating social ignornaces.
My minister preached a sermon on "Institutional Racism" recently which was very eye opening -- not the least of which is because he owned, from the get go, that he was a white guy born and raised in farming country in California and really could not even begin to understand what it was like to lived the life some folks have lived.
Thank you Rose. I am truly appreciative of people who are able to see things from a different perspective and take it as an opportunity to learn -- about themselves and the world around them. It's what I wish everyone would do. Maybe THEN we'll get somewhere.
>>>Yes..you are. But only as a means to look within and try and see what may have caused someone to say so.
Most (I'm not saying all) on the left want to know WHY someone has the feelings they have. Let's look into their past and see what caused them to be this way.
Call me what you want...but I don't CARE why. I really don't. We (and I mean everyone from blacks, to people with less than stellar childhoods) need to get over it and move on. Let it go. Say your "I'm sorries" and " I forgive you's" and be done with it.
>>>Just as he condemned his white grandmother's behavior but not the woman.<<<
Interesting that you would admit that...because so far everyone else is saying that he did NOT condemn her behavior. He did not say she did anything wrong...he merely used her as an example. The fact that he came out a day or two later and said she was a "typical" white person...Whew! that sure didn't help matters. He sees color. Don't kid yourself.
>>>>Coopsmom says: "Most (I'm not saying all) on the left want to know WHY someone has the feelings they have. Let's look into their past and see what caused them to be this way. Call me what you want...but I don't CARE why. I really don't. We (and I mean everyone from blacks, to people with less than stellar childhoods) need to get over it and move on"
I agree there are those that want to know someone has the feelings they have. I'm one of those people. For instance, I'm truly interested to know why you are as closed-minded as you are. I like to try and understand people -- it's makes it a whole lot easier to see them as a whole person. As human beings, we are the sum of our experiences. Everything you think, feel and do is based on your past experiences. Do I think this excuses bad behavior? Not at all. I don't believe just because someone had a horrible home life as a child, that does not give them the right to abuse children. Because someone is poor and lacking material things does not give them the right to steal. And so on. I agree...suck it up and move on.
But your answer..."say your I'm sorries" and "I forgive yous" and move on? Are you kidding me? Oh if the world were as simple and easy as that. There are some things for which "sorry" ain't gonna cut it. You can't continually do something to someone all the while saying "I'm sorry" and think that's okay. Eventually, those words become just that -- words -- empty meaningless words. If I stand in front of you and kick you in the knee and say I'm sorry...and continue to do it repeatedly, how long before you stop believing that I'm sorry? Don't kid YOURSELF...it wouldn't take long.
Yes...Obama condemned his grandmother's behavior. But he did NOT condemn the WOMAN. Just as he condemned Wrigth's -- but not Wright himself. Last time I checked, condemnation is admittance of wrong. Who condemns the right? But you seem a bit confused...in some posts you claim he "throws grandma under the bus" yet here, you say he merely "used her as an example". So which is it? You can't have it both ways. And when/where did he call his grandmother a "typical white person"? Did I miss that?
Don't worry about me kidding myself. I don't. I know he Obama sees color. We all see it...unless we are blind. You can't help but see. But the problem is not when people SEE color...the problem comes when we allow THAT to determine how we think about, react to, deal with and form expectations of, others BASED on what we see. And whether you want to admit it or not, your posts make you seem like exactly one of those who does. So who's kidding themselves?
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His speech didn't really offend me. It just proved what I have always felt about Obama. All words...nothing behind it. His acceptance of Wright was predictable and it showed that he lacks good judgment IMO.
The race issue is obviously still an issue in America, but only because a handful of people can't let it go. Now before everyone jumps on me for saying that...let me say that I've heard many members of the black community say the same thing.
The only real reason race is an issue for me...is because as a white woman in America...I don't feel like I can say ANYTHING with regards to someone of another skin color (that includes blacks, hispanics, asians, etc) without being labeled racist. YET it's perfectly ok for a black preacher to say horrible things about my race in one of his sermons. We're supposed to accept that.
I don't think so.
We apparently have a long way to go...but Obama is not the guy to do it. He has lost a lot of credibility with people in his own political party. They don't want to touch him now. Funny how that works.
Anyhow, that's just my opinion. I'm sure we'll hear from others.
I disagree with you, but I'm pretty sure
>>The only real reason race is an issue for me...is because as a white woman in America...I don't feel like I can say ANYTHING with regards to someone of another skin color (that includes blacks, hispanics, asians, etc) without being labeled racist. YET it's perfectly ok for a black preacher to say horrible things about my race in one of his sermons. We're supposed to accept that.<<
I thought you said you read the speech?
<<...I don't feel like I can say ANYTHING with regards to someone of another skin color (that includes blacks, hispanics, asians, etc) without being labeled racist. YET it's perfectly ok for a black preacher to say horrible things about my race in one of his sermons. We're supposed to accept that.>>
Yet is is perfectly okay to label a black preacher "racist"?
I try to stay out of these types of dicussions but I feel compelled to jump in here. Coopsmom, I'm honestly not trying to "jump down your throat" about your statement, but hoping to give you -- and others -- something to think about.
You say: "The race issue is obviously still an issue in America, but only because a handful of people can't let it go."
I think it's important to tell you there are FAR more than a handful of people keeping racism alive and well and living in America. But I also think it's important to note there is a distinct difference between "racism" and just plain "ignorance". While racism is ignorance...ignorance is not always racism. Ignorance, in it's purest sense, is merely a lack of knowledge. You don't know what you don't know. And ignorance, my dear is not confined to whites or blacks or any other race. Ignorance knows no such boundaries as race, religion, socio-economic status, etc. White people exhibit such ignorance when they make comments such as you made, but in your defense, other races exhibit the same ignorance when they take every comment made as some sort of slight because of their background - I believe black people are particularly prone to this sort of reaction. However, there is some understanding of that -- after all, there was a time -- a long time -- when it was not only okay to discrimate and make assumptions -- it was expected. I believe we've come a long way from that. But we -- blacks and whites -- have a long way to go. What was once blatant, you-know-what-your-dealing-with racism, how now morphed into a very quiet ignorance. That to me, is far more insidious because it's far harder to recognize -- in others and even harder in one's self.
You ask if you're supposed to accept negative comments made against white people from a black preacher (which I might add, as previously mentioned, I have seen no evidence of Rev. Wright having done). Yes..you are. But only as a means to look within and try and see what may have caused someone to say so. Just as blacks should accept that they are sometimes hypersensitive and every little thing is not about race. It is a hard thing for ANYONE to take a hard and relatively objective look at themselves. But until people begin to do so, things are not likely to change.
I also have to disagree that Obama's response showed a lack of judgment. Gotta disagree with you there. What he did was condemn the sin -- not the sinner. The word "mom" is part of your handle here, so I assume you have at least one child. Let's say your child said something horribly mean to another child -- something that really hurt the other child and you witnessed it. Would you disown your child? Completely distance yourself from him/her and never associate with them again? I doubt that you would. I would imagine that you would condemn your child's behavior, maybe even make them apologize. But you wouldn't just throw them out there on their own. That's basically what Obama did. He condemn Wright's ACTIONS....not Wright himself. Just as he condemned his white grandmother's behavior but not the woman. And Obama's ability to separate person from deed, IMO shows he is ABSOLUTELY the man to "do it". I don't know that that makes him the best choice for President -- my jury's still out on that matter -- but he certainly does have what it takes to begin the process of eradicating social ignornaces.
What a wonderful post.
My minister preached a sermon on "Institutional Racism" recently which was very eye opening -- not the least of which is because he owned, from the get go, that he was a white guy born and raised in farming country in California and really could not even begin to understand what it was like to lived the life some folks have lived.
>>>Yes..you are. But only as a means to look within and try and see what may have caused someone to say so.
Most (I'm not saying all) on the left want to know WHY someone has the feelings they have. Let's look into their past and see what caused them to be this way.
Call me what you want...but I don't CARE why. I really don't. We (and I mean everyone from blacks, to people with less than stellar childhoods) need to get over it and move on. Let it go. Say your "I'm sorries" and " I forgive you's" and be done with it.
>>>Just as he condemned his white grandmother's behavior but not the woman.<<<
Interesting that you would admit that...because so far everyone else is saying that he did NOT condemn her behavior. He did not say she did anything wrong...he merely used her as an example. The fact that he came out a day or two later and said she was a "typical" white person...Whew! that sure didn't help matters. He sees color. Don't kid yourself.
I wasn't offended either.
>>>>Coopsmom says: "Most (I'm not saying all) on the left want to know WHY someone has the feelings they have. Let's look into their past and see what caused them to be this way.
Call me what you want...but I don't CARE why. I really don't. We (and I mean everyone from blacks, to people with less than stellar childhoods) need to get over it and move on"
I agree there are those that want to know someone has the feelings they have. I'm one of those people. For instance, I'm truly interested to know why you are as closed-minded as you are. I like to try and understand people -- it's makes it a whole lot easier to see them as a whole person. As human beings, we are the sum of our experiences. Everything you think, feel and do is based on your past experiences. Do I think this excuses bad behavior? Not at all. I don't believe just because someone had a horrible home life as a child, that does not give them the right to abuse children. Because someone is poor and lacking material things does not give them the right to steal. And so on. I agree...suck it up and move on.
But your answer..."say your I'm sorries" and "I forgive yous" and move on? Are you kidding me? Oh if the world were as simple and easy as that. There are some things for which "sorry" ain't gonna cut it. You can't continually do something to someone all the while saying "I'm sorry" and think that's okay. Eventually, those words become just that -- words -- empty meaningless words. If I stand in front of you and kick you in the knee and say I'm sorry...and continue to do it repeatedly, how long before you stop believing that I'm sorry? Don't kid YOURSELF...it wouldn't take long.
Yes...Obama condemned his grandmother's behavior. But he did NOT condemn the WOMAN. Just as he condemned Wrigth's -- but not Wright himself. Last time I checked, condemnation is admittance of wrong. Who condemns the right? But you seem a bit confused...in some posts you claim he "throws grandma under the bus" yet here, you say he merely "used her as an example". So which is it? You can't have it both ways. And when/where did he call his grandmother a "typical white person"? Did I miss that?
Don't worry about me kidding myself. I don't. I know he Obama sees color. We all see it...unless we are blind. You can't help but see. But the problem is not when people SEE color...the problem comes when we allow THAT to determine how we think about, react to, deal with and form expectations of, others BASED on what we see. And whether you want to admit it or not, your posts make you seem like exactly one of those who does. So who's kidding themselves?
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