I'm glad your friend's sister is representative of everyone on "welfare". Let me tell you I have a BA and MA in Political Science, I had zero help in going to college so am very thankful for pell grants and student loans. I stay home to take care of our children and have taken food stamps for 6 mos, WIC and medicaid in the past. We didn't plan on having kids but it happened-would you have rather I aborted them? I am not ashamed that I have taken a "hand out" from the government and think that these programs can definitely help people when they need it.
***So ......if healthcare is a right, then that's great, people can choose to have it or not, they have the RIGHT to pay for it or not, but don't expect the country to pay for it!***
Not the same thing... people have a right to healthcare like they have a right to education... but I am done... I have a head cold and feel crummy and I need to make dinner for my family. You seem unable to see other people's POV and unable to have compassion for anyone who is outside your area of acceptability. You cannot fathom that yes, I do think that everyone, yes everyone has worth. So I no longer see a point in conversing with you.
So, you're saying that we need to confirm that Palin is opposed to choice. It's not sufficient to say that she's "pro-life," because "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are not mutually exclusive?
I'm just trying to make sure I understand what you're asking for.
"That the stance of the organization which I suspect is a kind of code. They don't want to come right out and say they're "against" choice. It would be interesting to know what they actually do in the way of supporting their mission; that is, what those high-sounding words mean where the rubber hits the road. Do they promote using yours and my tax dollars to support women?"
Don't tell anyone but our tax dollars already support women and children and many, many different social programs.
The rest of that post is such a convoluted attempt to continue these unsubstantiated claims that I'm not even going to go there.
"If I think maybe you make that decision because of circumstances I could help you change, I might do that. Would that be wrong? Wouldn't that really be giving you more of a choice?"
I'm not a woman and would doubtful ever be in a position where I would need anyone's advice. But I have two teenage daughters, 15 and 18, who might. I think it would be wrong to approach a person who hasn't solicited your advice and doesn't want your advice and force your advice on them. OTOH, if you're a doctor or sagely person whose opinion she values, then, no it wouldn't be wrong.
The "above my paygrade" line was given during the Saddleback church interview:
WARREN: That was a freebie. That was a gimme. That was a gimme, OK? Now, let's deal with abortion; 40 million abortions since Roe v. Wade. As a pastor, I have to deal with this all of the time, all of the pain and all of the conflicts. I know this is a very complex issue. Forty million abortions, at what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?
OBAMA: Well, you know, I think that whether you're looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade.
WARREN: Have you -
OBAMA: But let me just speak more generally about the issue of abortion, because this is something obviously the country wrestles with. One thing that I'm absolutely convinced of is that there is a moral and ethical element to this issue. And so I think anybody who tries to deny the moral difficulties and gravity of the abortion issue, I think, is not paying attention. So that would be point number one.
But point number two, I am pro-choice. I believe in Roe v. Wade, and I come to that conclusion not because I'm pro-abortion, but because, ultimately, I don't think women make these decisions casually. I think they -- they wrestle with these things in profound ways, in consultation with their pastors or their spouses or their doctors or their family members. And so, for me, the goal right now should be -- and this is where I think we can find common ground. And by the way, I've now inserted this into the Democratic party platform, is how do we reduce the number of abortions? The fact is that although we have had a president who is opposed to abortion over the last eight years, abortions have not gone down and that is something we have to address.
I believe that he was referencing "GOD" as being above his paygrade, which is correct. ;)
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Holy mackeral.
I don't remember saying I don't think abortion should be allowed when it is a matter of saving the mother's life.
I'm glad your friend's sister is representative of everyone on "welfare". Let me tell you I have a BA and MA in Political Science, I had zero help in going to college so am very thankful for pell grants and student loans. I stay home to take care of our children and have taken food stamps for 6 mos, WIC and medicaid in the past. We didn't plan on having kids but it happened-would you have rather I aborted them? I am not ashamed that I have taken a "hand out" from the government and think that these programs can definitely help people when they need it.
***So ......if healthcare is a right, then that's great, people can choose to have it or not, they have the RIGHT to pay for it or not, but don't expect the country to pay for it!***
Not the same thing... people have a right to healthcare like they have a right to education... but I am done... I have a head cold and feel crummy and I need to make dinner for my family. You seem unable to see other people's POV and unable to have compassion for anyone who is outside your area of acceptability. You cannot fathom that yes, I do think that everyone, yes everyone has worth. So I no longer see a point in conversing with you.
~so are you saying that my friends sister (who is on welfare) is worth something ...~
You were referencing what is "biblically correct" the other day.
I really think that the old party vs party thing has many believing things that aren't true.
So, you're saying that we need to confirm that Palin is opposed to choice. It's not sufficient to say that she's "pro-life," because "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are not mutually exclusive?
I'm just trying to make sure I understand what you're asking for.
"That the stance of the organization which I suspect is a kind of code. They don't want to come right out and say they're "against" choice. It would be interesting to know what they actually do in the way of supporting their mission; that is, what those high-sounding words mean where the rubber hits the road. Do they promote using yours and my tax dollars to support women?"
Don't tell anyone but our tax dollars already support women and children and many, many different social programs.
The rest of that post is such a convoluted attempt to continue these unsubstantiated claims that I'm not even going to go there.
"If I think maybe you make that decision because of circumstances I could help you change, I might do that. Would that be wrong? Wouldn't that really be giving you more of a choice?"
I'm not a woman and would doubtful ever be in a position where I would need anyone's advice. But I have two teenage daughters, 15 and 18, who might. I think it would be wrong to approach a person who hasn't solicited your advice and doesn't want your advice and force your advice on them. OTOH, if you're a doctor or sagely person whose opinion she values, then, no it wouldn't be wrong.
The "above my paygrade" line was given during the Saddleback church interview:
WARREN: That was a freebie. That was a gimme. That was a gimme, OK? Now, let's deal with abortion; 40 million abortions since Roe v. Wade. As a pastor, I have to deal with this all of the time, all of the pain and all of the conflicts. I know this is a very complex issue. Forty million abortions, at what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?
OBAMA: Well, you know, I think that whether you're looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade.
WARREN: Have you -
OBAMA: But let me just speak more generally about the issue of abortion, because this is something obviously the country wrestles with. One thing that I'm absolutely convinced of is that there is a moral and ethical element to this issue. And so I think anybody who tries to deny the moral difficulties and gravity of the abortion issue, I think, is not paying attention. So that would be point number one.
But point number two, I am pro-choice. I believe in Roe v. Wade, and I come to that conclusion not because I'm pro-abortion, but because, ultimately, I don't think women make these decisions casually. I think they -- they wrestle with these things in profound ways, in consultation with their pastors or their spouses or their doctors or their family members. And so, for me, the goal right now should be -- and this is where I think we can find common ground. And by the way, I've now inserted this into the Democratic party platform, is how do we reduce the number of abortions? The fact is that although we have had a president who is opposed to abortion over the last eight years, abortions have not gone down and that is something we have to address.
I believe that he was referencing "GOD" as being above his paygrade, which is correct. ;)
You can read the full transcript here:
http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/08/saddleback-forum-videotape-oba.html
Edited 9/3/2008 6:39 pm ET by lj_jacieb
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