Taxing My Patience

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2010
Taxing My Patience
15
Sat, 09-18-2010 - 12:20am
Some points:

~Opal~    

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-15-2010
Sat, 09-18-2010 - 9:55am

LOL! They are preparing for it. That's part of the slow economy--and part of the problem.

Some people would rather "stick it to the rich" even if it takes everyone else along for the ride. It won't change a thing. It's will just prolong the pain. But hey, go for it if it feels good. The government always does such a good job, whey should this choice be any different?

>>Luck is what you call it when preparation meets opportunity<<

>>Luck is what you call it when preparation meets opportunity<<
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2010
Sat, 09-18-2010 - 10:32am
No...they're not sticking it to the rich (though I wish they were). They want to go back to the tax rates of the 1990's when there was a budget surplus. I wouldn't mind if all the tax breaks expired and if Congress then had to affirmatively ask for and legislate new tax breaks.
~Opal~
~Opal~    
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-15-2010
Sat, 09-18-2010 - 10:51am

Well, yes, they are.

But I find that curious that you wish they would do more.

Why do you dislike the rich so much?

And even if you do for whatever your reasons may be I find it curious that even though "sticking it to them" doesn't help anyone else and may in fact harm others because it makes you "feel good" to get them--you wanna.

That is very self-destruction--IMO.

You may not like them (baffling but I'm sure you have your own reasons) but to ignore your own best interests for the point of making yourself feel good for the moment is--again, self-destructive.

But based on how so many people run their individual lives I guess not too overly surprising.

>>Luck is what you call it when preparation meets opportunity<<
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2010
Sat, 09-18-2010 - 11:10am
I don't dislike all the rich, just the ones who forgot to trickle when they got their tax breaks. Trickling was important, and many of them forgot to do that. Instead, many saved the money or invested it in countries with labor forces offshore. You call it "sticking it to them," and I call it having them pay more in taxes. On one hand, the Republicans are exceptionally worried about our deficits, yet on the other, they don't want the rich to pay more taxes. Oh well...let all those tax cuts expire....all of them for the rich and poor. Then, if there is fear that the poor are suffering too much, we can look at ways to give them some tax relief if that is practical. It would make the rich feel that they're weren't having it "stuck to them" if they knew that the poor were suffering more. Gotta' make the rich feel better.
~Opal~
~Opal~    
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-02-2009
Sat, 09-18-2010 - 12:08pm
I think they should let all the tax cuts expire also - and still cut some programs. That is really the only way the deficit is going to get under control - I hear all the time that we can't spend our way out - well we also can't reduce revenue and hope to fix things either.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-20-2009
Sat, 09-18-2010 - 2:07pm

Daniel Gross is in the minority when it comes to letting thetax cuts expire and for good reason, as pointed out here.



Most U.S. economists want the Bush tax cuts to be extended given growing concerns about the strength of the recovery, but a survey released Monday showed divisions on what path the Federal Reserve should take.



At least 60% of economists surveyed by the National Association for Business Economics said lower tax rates on capital gains and dividends should not be allowed to expire as provided under current law.



http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/08/30/nabe-survey-most-economists-favor-extending-bush-tax-cuts/



iVillage Member
Registered: 07-15-2010
Sat, 09-18-2010 - 2:14pm
Well of course it would. But it doesn't support the class warfare agenda.

>>Luck is what you call it when preparation meets opportunity<<
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-15-2010
Sat, 09-18-2010 - 3:06pm

The Hidden Truth About the Bush Tax Increases
By Bill Frezza

>>The debate rages over whether our country can afford to extend the Bush tax cuts for the rich. Progressives argue that the ballooning Federal debt is a legacy of these tax cuts.

There is one unreported flaw in this argument. As data from the IRS show, George Bush did not cut income taxes. He increased them. In fact, Bush increased income taxes not only for the rich but for at least half of all tax filers. Only the poor paid less income tax under George Bush than under Bill Clinton.

WHAT?

Go to the IRS website and add up the numbers for yourself. During the eight years of the Clinton Administration the Federal government collected a total of $5.66 trillion dollars in individual income taxes. During the eight years of the Bush Administration the Federal government collected approximately $7.45 trillion dollars in individual income taxes. The rich - that is, the top 1% of taxpayers - not only forked over a trillion dollars more to Uncle Sam under Bush than under Clinton, their share of the income tax burden increased from 33% to 38%.

How can this be?

The explanation for this apparent paradox is simple. The problem is that no one wants to hear it. Not the pundits. Not the press. Certainly not the leaders of the Democratic Party. Oddly enough, even the Republicans are oblivious.

George Bush cut the marginal tax rates paid by the rich, and everyone else for that matter. These are the tax cuts that are about to expire. The marginal tax rate is the rate you pay on the last dollars you earn. The blended tax rate is the effective rate you end up paying across all of your income. The total amount of tax you pay equals your blended tax rate times your taxable income. And it's the total amount of tax collected that finances the government.

As hard as this is for some people to accept, the rich change their behavior when their marginal tax rates are reduced. The working rich work harder and longer. They expand their businesses, creating jobs. The idle rich shift investments from lower yield tax-free government bonds into higher-return taxable investments, the kind of investments that finance companies that create jobs. Exactly the opposite happens when marginal tax rates go up, as they are scheduled to do unless Congress acts.

The rich do not get richer because they are stupid. Being rational people, they are usually happy to pay more taxes if at the same time they also take home more after-tax dollars. And that's exactly what they did under George Bush. The math works because the pie gets bigger.

So if social justice is your goal, go ahead and raise marginal tax rates for the rich. Making the rich poorer will certainly reduce inequality. Why should you care if the total amount of taxes paid by the rich goes down, economic growth goes down, fewer jobs get created, and the government falls deeper into debt? In fact, this is a perfect way to create a permanent crisis that never goes to waste. As a full throated Progressive you can run for Congress claiming that you are looking out for the little guy because you are sticking it to the rich.

Meanwhile, when you asleep-at-the-switch Republicans finally learn how to tell the difference between nominal tax rates and actual tax collections, please fess up to the real source of the ballooning national debt. Your guy George Bush was the biggest spender in American history, at least until his incompetent presidency delivered Barack Obama to the Oval Office. Bush spent $5 trillion dollars more of our money than Bill Clinton. Had Bush frozen the federal budget when he came into office he would have left Obama a surplus. One of the saddest things about our broken two-party system is that every time Republicans gain power they spend like Democrats. Understand now why the Tea Party wants nothing to do with your incumbents?

Do these facts surprise you? Is this the first time you've heard that George Bush was the biggest tax collector in American history? Were you aware that the rich paid a higher blended tax rate under Bush than under Clinton? Since reporters seem more willing to parrot talking points than dig up facts, spend a little time on www.irs.gov and see for yourself. You can also ponder what this selective national blindness says about our dysfunctional politico-pundit complex and its handmaidens in the media.<<

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/printpage/?url=http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2010/08/16/the_hidden_truth_about_the_bush_tax_increases_98625.html

>>Luck is what you call it when preparation meets opportunity<<
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-01-2010
Sat, 09-18-2010 - 4:09pm

I'm confused about whether "most economists" want that, though apparently a polls shows it.

~Opal~    
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-20-2009
Sat, 09-18-2010 - 7:51pm

Well isn't that odd most people don't want taxes to be raised for the uber wealthy, those making over 250, 000 (wink) yet those wacky Democrat

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