Christian man quits job because '666' was on his W-2 form

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-09-2001
Christian man quits job because '666' was on his W-2 form
9
Sun, 02-10-2013 - 3:20pm

http://www.examiner.com/article/christian-man-quits-job-because-666-was-...

What do you think? Should a religion be able to interfere/dictate to a secular business' bookkeeping or payroll system?



Blessings,

Gypsy

)O(



iVillage Member
Registered: 10-17-2012

Sounds like his employers are idiots.  Of course they can change the number, they don't have billions of employees and re-issuing a W-2 isn't a big deal, especially to accommodate such a commonly understood religious objection.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-09-2001

deenasdad wrote:
<p>Sounds like his employers are idiots.  Of course they can change the number, they don't have billions of employees and re-issuing a W-2 isn't a big deal, especially to accommodate such a commonly understood religious objection.</p>

Well, I don't agree this "666" business is a "common" religous objection. And I don't agree accommodation should be made for such a request. I heard about someone's experience with such a fanatic when trying to check out with her debit card. The card had "666" on it and the clerk had the audacity to refuse to process her card to pay! Unbelieveable! Such fanatical people should not work for "secular" businesses but instead seek employment with religious employers who push similar beliefs. While one may have religious freedoms in this country, that freedom does not include forcing those beliefs on others or refusing to do the job one accepted as their employment. It's the responsible of the employee to find employment that is compatible.

What if the employer is open 7 days a week, and requires someone to work on Sunday or Friday or another day that may be a worship day for an employee? Or an employee that wants extra breaks because her/his religion requires numerous prayer times during the work day? Falsify financial records to try to avoid the "666" number?  How far should an employer have to go with this kind of accommodation? I think there should be a limit when it intereferes or hampers an employee running the business. Or abusing other employees, with less breaks, for example, and having to carry an extra work load. Or antagonizing customers who have a perfect right to pay with their debit/credit card regardless of the numbers on it.

Employers running a secular business should not be allowed to force religion on their employees, either, such as mandatory Bible study or mandatory prayer time, etc.



Blessings,

Gypsy

)O(



iVillage Member
Registered: 10-17-2012

Well, I don't agree this "666" business is a "common" religous objection.

I think if you were to ask most people about the meaning of 666 they would be able to tell you.

And I don't agree accommodation should be made for such a request.

Do you feel that accommodation for all religious concerns be rejected, or just for Christians?

I heard about someone's experience with such a fanatic when trying to check out with her debit card. The card had "666" on it and the clerk had the audacity to refuse to process her card to pay! Unbelieveable!

I don't find this example to be equitable.  First, the "666" in question isn't being applied or associated with the individual with the objection...which was the concern of the man in the OP.  In this case, the person is refusing a legitimate payment based on what?  That the person making the payment is in league with the Devil?  Or that processing the payment from a "666" card would somehow tarnish the clerk?  Without knowing more details, it's tough to understand the connection the clerk was making to support the objection.  Still, it seems a relatively simple thing to contact the store manager and have either the manager or another clerk process the transaction and then resume regular business.

Such fanatical people should not work for "secular" businesses but instead seek employment with religious employers who push similar beliefs.

I wonder if you would support a similar disdain and disregard for your beliefs?

While one may have religious freedoms in this country, that freedom does not include forcing those beliefs on others or refusing to do the job one accepted as their employment. It's the responsible of the employee to find employment that is compatible.

So you also believe that Muslim women who want to wear their religious headwear should be told to "take it off or find a new job?"  Or that when a woman finds out she's making less than her male counterparts she should just shut up or leave and find an employer who will pay her more?

What if the employer is open 7 days a week, and requires someone to work on Sunday or Friday or another day that may be a worship day for an employee? Or an employee that wants extra breaks because her/his religion requires numerous prayer times during the work day?

One would hope that a consciencious employer would try to be accommodating of his employees sincerely held religious beliefs.

Falsify financial records to try to avoid the "666" number?  How far should an employer have to go with this kind of accommodation?

I hardly think the situation would require falsifying records in order to ensure that an employee with an objection, not be personally linked to "666."

I think there should be a limit when it intereferes or hampers an employee running the business. Or abusing other employees, with less breaks, for example, and having to carry an extra work load. Or antagonizing customers who have a perfect right to pay with their debit/credit card regardless of the numbers on it.

So you oppose women taking extended "family leave" after giving birth?  Or taking time to breastfeed or pump in the workplace?  Or who take time off to care for sick children?  After all, these "activities" hamper an employer running a business and abuses other employees who have to pick up the slack for the woman.  There should be a limit, shouldn't there?

Employers running a secular business should not be allowed to force religion on their employees, either, such as mandatory Bible study or mandatory prayer time, etc.

Do you know of such a situation?

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2009

Superstition has no place in the modern world.  "Christians" may know the reference to 666  (that's if they put any importance on the Book of Revelations)  but not everyone is "Christians", even in the  "Christians".It is is only a number.

Should we now ban the number 13 (and it's unluckiness is due the bible too). How about black cats?

The company is probably better without him as an employer.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2009

Superstition has no place in the modern world.  "Christians" may know the reference to 666  (that's if they put any importance on the Book of Revelations)  but not everyone is "Christians", even in the  "Christians".It is is only a number.

Should we now ban the number 13 (and it's unluckiness is due the bible too). How about black cats?

The company is probably better without him as an employer.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-17-2012

Superstition has no place in the modern world.

You must be referring to "global warming" or some kind of efficient "green energy"?  If not, are you seriousy calling the religious beliefs of almost 99% of the world's population "superstition?"

"Christians" may know the reference to 666  (that's if they put any importance on the Book of Revelations)  but not everyone is "Christians", even in the  "Christians".It is is only a number.

And the FACT that the globe hasn't actually warmed doesn't seem to deter global warming alarmists, but liberals don't seem to have a compunction about declaring the truth of their lies.  The relevance to "666" is, however, a matter of conjecture and interpretation among religious scholars and so is not "dire" in the minds of all Christians, although they probably reserve a certain "respect" for its occurrence.  Still, the issue is not in YOUR belief, any more is it in YOUR belief that hangs the veracity of Muslim or Jewish beliefs or traditions, the issue remains simply a matter of respecting the religious beliefs of others.

Should we now ban the number 13 (and it's unluckiness is due the bible too). How about black cats?

That would depend.  Are you a Templar Knight or a Salem witch?  Btw, no one suggested banning "666" any more than they banned "13"...although most buildings omit the 13th floor...the request was for a business to simply NOT make a personal connection between an employee and the number "666."  That hardly seems like an outrageous request.

The company is probably better without him as an employer.

If the company was better off without him as an employer then the "company" would not exist, as it IS the "employer."  If, however, you were referring to the individual as an "employee," then you would have to consider his value as an "employee" of that company in order to render that rather harsh judgment...which, of course, you have not.  Instead, you use your own bigotry and personal beliefs, or lack of them, to dismiss not only his beliefs, but the individual themselves.  Quite sad...very hypocritical...and pathetic to say the least.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2009

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Global warming is fact. It is not superstition but is based on empirical,observable data.  The discussion in the scientific community now is on what are the contributing factors to this increase in the overall average temperature and how fast the melting of the world's ice fields are occuring.

Really, 99% of the world are "Christians"? That will be news to the Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, non-religious and so on who make up 67% of the world's population.  Do you think that the Book of Revelations is part of sacred texts of other religions? Sorry to tell you this but it is not. And not everyone watches American horror movies or the History Channel. In fact, in Cabbalistic Judaism, 666 is the number that represents the creation and perfection of the world. It is a good number.

Christians are only about 33% of the world's population and I am sure that not all these Christians subscribe to the more fundamentalist version, which places emphasis on the belief in the Bible "translated word for translated word".  In the US, I think only about 78% are Christians and, of the 78%, not all follow the more fundamentalist interpretation of the religion.

The Book of Revelations was not written in English using Arabic numbers. Perhaps this employee should be more concerned about  χξϛʹ. Or 616, how the mark of the beast appears in two versions of the original Book of Revelations? Or the name Nero?  (In Hebrew, letters stand for numbers and when your translated Nero from Greek to Hebrew, the name has the value of 666. From Latin to Hebrew, the number is 616.).

Yes, the employer is better off without him; they should part ways. This employee is free, of course, to believe whatever he wants (even though paper work is just paper work and a number is just a number) but he is not free to impose beliefs on his employer or on his fellow employees. And, unlike you, I do not jump to the conclusion that he is a "valued employee" because he is a fundamentalist Christian.

Perhaps someone should take him aside and explain to him that having that number on a tax form will not mark him as a follower of the anti-Christ. It is ONLY a number on a form. And tax forms are legal documents. I don’t know about in the US but here companies are not free to change legal tax forms to suit individual employees.

The employee voiced his objectives; his employer was not able to accommodate him. The employee should then find himself other employment,if he is not happy with the outcome. The employer is under no obligation to change his accounting pratices or destroy and/or modify a legal document to suit the religious belief of any employee. Going to media will only change that.

High rises not having a 13th floor is mostly an irrational Western superstition. But the reality is the 13th floor is still the 13th floor, no matter what you call it. Some buildings here have a 13th floor.  (For Asians, any floor with the number 4 is considered unlucky. The number 13 is OK). 

It is doubtful that the arrest of the Knights Templar on Friday Oct 13th, 1307 is the source of fear of Friday the 13thsince tha fear seemed to have started in the late 1800s. And the fear of the Black cat predates the Salem Witch trials, back to 12th and 13th century Europe.

I will ignore the rest of your post as I do most of your posts.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-17-2012

Global warming is fact. It is not superstition but is based on empirical,observable data.  The discussion in the scientific community now is on what are the contributing factors to this increase in the overall average temperature and how fast the melting of the world's ice fields are occuring.

Of course global warming is a fact...and so it global cooling.  What isn't a fact is the claim that the earth is warming now.  What amusing is it's so much not a fact that the left was forced to change their "global warming" hysteria to "climate change" to stop walking around with egg on their face every time they're proven wrong or when their evidence is shown to be inaccurate and corrupt.

Really, 99% of the world are "Christians"? That will be news to the Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, non-religious and so on who make up 67% of the world's population.

I'm sure they would, but I never said 99% of the world are Christians.  What I did was question your disparaging comments about the religious beliefs of roughly 97.6% of the world's population, describing them as "supertition."

Do you think that the Book of Revelations is part of sacred texts of other religions? Sorry to tell you this but it is not. And not everyone watches American horror movies or the History Channel. In fact, in Cabbalistic Judaism, 666 is the number that represents the creation and perfection of the world. It is a good number.

Do you only disparage only Christian "end times" teaching or are you equally disdainful of the teachings of all religions?

Christians are only about 33% of the world's population and I am sure that not all these Christians subscribe to the more fundamentalist version, which places emphasis on the belief in the Bible "translated word for translated word".  In the US, I think only about 78% are Christians and, of the 78%, not all follow the more fundamentalist interpretation of the religion.

Who cares?  It seems as though you haven't considered this before, but one needent subscribe to someone's religious beliefs in order to respect them.

The Book of Revelations was not written in English using Arabic numbers. Perhaps this employee should be more concerned about  χξϛʹ. Or 616, how the mark of the beast appears in two versions of the original Book of Revelations? Or the name Nero?  (In Hebrew, letters stand for numbers and when your translated Nero from Greek to Hebrew, the name has the value of 666. From Latin to Hebrew, the number is 616.).

Perhaps you should give him a call and try to assuage his concerns with your math lesson...until then, it seems more appropriate to try and respect someone else's beliefs rather than denegrate them.

Yes, the employer is better off without him; they should part ways.

Again, an ignorant conclusion as you know nothing about the employee or his value to the company.  You have simply dismissed him and his worth because he has beliefs that you don't personally respect or subscribe to.

This employee is free, of course, to believe whatever he wants (even though paper work is just paper work and a number is just a number) but he is not free to impose beliefs on his employer or on his fellow employees.

He wasn't imposing his beliefs on his employer, he was objecting because his employer was disregarding his beliefs and creating an intolerant workplace.

And, unlike you, I do not jump to the conclusion that he is a "valued employee" because he is a fundamentalist Christian.

True, you denegrate him BECAUSE he is a Christian.

Perhaps someone should take him aside and explain to him that having that number on a tax form will not mark him as a follower of the anti-Christ. It is ONLY a number on a form. And tax forms are legal documents. I don’t know about in the US but here companies are not free to change legal tax forms to suit individual employees.

I'm sure that most people with religious beliefs would appreciate you taking them aside and insulting them.  Why don't you give it a whirl and let us know how it goes?

The employee voiced his objectives; his employer was not able to accommodate him. The employee should then find himself other employment,if he is not happy with the outcome. The employer is under no obligation to change his accounting pratices or destroy and/or modify a legal document to suit the religious belief of any employee. Going to media will only change that.

It's sad that your advice for people who face discrimination and religious intolerance is to "suck it up."  I can almost hear the roar of the minorities and women who are applauding your sensitivity.

High rises not having a 13th floor is mostly an irrational Western superstition. But the reality is the 13th floor is still the 13th floor, no matter what you call it. Some buildings here have a 13th floor.  (For Asians, any floor with the number 4 is considered unlucky. The number 13 is OK).

And yet there they are...or rather, aren't.  Imagine someone having the sensitivity to leave out an entire floor of a building out of respect for someone's "superstitions," compared to the ridiculous intolerance of an employer who would lose a valued employee rather than simply issue a new W-2.   Just shows what fools that employer was.

It is doubtful that the arrest of the Knights Templar on Friday Oct 13th, 1307 is the source of fear of Friday the 13thsince tha fear seemed to have started in the late 1800s.

The fact is that no one knows the origin or the Friday the 13th superstition...but I'm also pretty sure the Templars thought that it was pretty unlucky.

And the fear of the Black cat predates the Salem Witch trials, back to 12th and 13th century Europe.

Again, there is no definitive origin for the black cat tradition, but it's not really relevant since I never claimed it began in 17th c Salem.

I will ignore the rest of your post as I do most of your posts.

Well, if you were just going to treat us to more of the same sensitivity and intolerance above, I'll try and hold back the tears at the loss. ; )

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2009

You made a comment concerning a minor grammar mistake I made. I decided to ignore that comment,and wrote that. You may find that arrogant, I do not.