Madonna changes name to Esther

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Registered: 03-27-2003
Madonna changes name to Esther
Fri, 06-18-2004 - 9:37am

Here is an article about Madonna.

Can anyone here tell me anything about Kabbalic Judaism ? Is it a "psuedo Jewish cult" as the article says, or is it a legitimate branch of Judaism. Does it encourage members to "pamper themselves"

Ohter comments, opionion, etc. TIA



iVillage Member
Registered: 01-07-2004
Fri, 06-18-2004 - 9:39am
i think madonna is trying to get more publicity since she is not as hot as she used to be.
Avatar for jillianmarie77
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 06-18-2004 - 12:17pm
I think Kaballah is a 'mystical' form of judeasim. It entails lots of meditation I know that. I think some other celebs have turned to this religion as well, Iknow Rosanne Barr has and I *think* I heard that brittany spears is 'kaballah' too and so you KNOW it must have substnace if she's doing it (barf)

No seriously though I think it is not 'legitimate' in the way that gosticism is not legitimate christianity (according to most christians that is disclaimer disclaimer blah blah blah)

But you never know. Judeasim is much broader than I ever thought it was. Where's Shalom Steph and Rashi?

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Registered: 08-04-2002
Fri, 06-18-2004 - 1:56pm
When I read about it yesterday the "offical" statement was that she is breaking away from the negative energy that is connected thru her name by her mother. Also it is tradition to in Jewish culture to not name a child after a living relative, if I'm not mistaken. I think that is how they are connecting Kabbalah with the name change. I didn't read the artilce on this theard though. Just passing thru for today.
Cl for Religion Debate
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 06-18-2004 - 3:37pm
Kabballah is the mystery aspect of Judaism, akin to the relationship between Gnosticism and Christianity, and Sufism and Islam.

Odd how all three of the Abrahamic religions have a occult/suprarational "branch", that is (at least in two of them) generally rejected. It relates to the influence of Hermetic philosophy, I believe. hmmmm. Time to study! The really weird thing is that when you compare the esoteric portions of relgions, rather than the exoteric, they all look very very very similar...and they all reflect (or are reflected in) the Emerald Tablet of Hermes. Hmmm. Back to hermetics, which is the esoteric traditions of greece and a bit of egypt.

Is it legitimate? According to who? That will depend on who you ask. From what I gather it is not *common* and often frowned upon by Jewish people. I asked a friend about it and she looked at me like I had lost my mind. Very dismissive of it, in the same way that christians are very dismissive of gnostic christianity. (Not sure what the Muslim view of Sufism is).

As for the "psuedo" cult, understand that there are really two different Kabballah traditions. One *is* very much Jewish, (whether or not it is legitimate is another question) and the other is a modern mishmash of Jewish Kabbala, Hermetic philososphy, and ceremonial magick.

Avatar for jillianmarie77
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 06-18-2004 - 3:41pm
Are there actual emerald tablets of hermes? What is contained in them?

EDITING to say never mind. Found the answer myself at

I keep hearing twilight zone music, life is like a tangled web isn't it?

Edited 6/18/2004 3:57 pm ET ET by jillianmarie77

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-30-2003
Fri, 06-18-2004 - 4:56pm
"Are there actual emerald tablets of hermes? What is contained in them?

EDITING to say never mind. Found the answer myself at "

Do post what you learned. I tried to look myself, but my work has a block on "Non-Traditional Religions and Occult and Folklore" sites. Never had any trouble getting on to a Christian site, hmm... I'd complain, but I don't think I could convince them it was work related.


I have no need for anger
With intimate strangers
And I got nothing to hide

- Amy Ray

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Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 06-18-2004 - 5:41pm

Here is a link for when you get home: (It's very very long)

And here is a compiled translation of the Emerald Tablet:


1) True, without falsehood, certain, most certain.

2) What is above is like what is below, and what is below, like that which is above. To make the miracle of the one thing.

3) And as all things were made from contemplation of one, so all things were born from one adaptation.

4) Its father is the Sun, its mother is the Moon.

5) The wind carried it in its womb, the earth breast fed it.

6) It is the father of all works of wonder in the world.

7) Its power is complete if turned towards earth, it will separate earth from fire, the subtle from the gross.

8) With great capacity (Wisdom) it ascends from earth to heaven. Again it descends to earth, and takes back the power of the above and the below.

9) Thus you will receive the glory of the distinctiveness of the world. All obscurity will flee from you.

10) This is the whole most strong strength of all strength, for it overcomes all subtle things, and penetrates all solid things.

11) Thus was the world created.

12) From this comes marvelous adaptations of which this is the procedure.

13) Therefore I am called Hermes Thrice-Crowned because I have three parts of the Wisdom of the whole world.

14) And complete is what I had to say about the work of the Sun.

Avatar for jillianmarie77
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 06-18-2004 - 6:59pm
Here's a copy and paste of the page. If you'd like me to click on any related topic and paste it let me know. I'm here til 5 ;)

The Emerald Tablet

Related Resources

• The Hermetic Tradition

• The Corpus Hermeticum -Hermetic source texts

• Hermes Trismegistus Image Gallery


From the glossary

• Alchemy

• Magick

• Kabbalah


Elsewhere on the net

Commentary on the Emerald Tablet of Hermes - Rawn Clark

The Chemical Arcana



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An introduction to Hermetic Philosophy

The Emerald tablet is short- only thirteen lines of text, but it is the cornerstone of the Hermetic movement. It’s origin is shrouded in antiquity, and even its name is a mystery, yet is has been an inspiration for alchemists and magicians for hundreds of years. The well known Hermetic axiom, “As above, so below” is derived directly from the text. It may be the oldest Hermetic text known, predating both the Corpus Hermeticum and the Christian religion.

The Emerald tablet languished in relative obscurity until the middle ages, when it began to circulate throughout the alchemical community. Most believe the original was written in Greek, but the oldest surviving copies are Arabic translations. Despite its mysterious origin, many have imputed great significance to the text- translators include Roger Bacon, Isaac Newton, and even HP Blavatsky.

The ideas contained within are profound- influencing medieval alchemists, Jewish kabbalists, Masons, and ritual magicians alike.

Without lie, certain and most true:

What is below is is like what is above, and what is above is like what is below, to accomplish the miracle of the One thing.

The introductory stanza introduces the now well known concept of the macrocosm, or world of divinity and its relationship to the microcosm, the world of matter and of man, and the union between them, as described by mystics throughout history.

In truth, and without And just as all things have been from the one, so also they are born from this one thing by adaptation.

This line describes a very kabbalistic world view: that of emanation. In Kabbalistic cosmology, all of creation emanates in ever expanding layers of complexity, yet all are at the same time part of an unknowable, limitless power. The nature of God is considered impenatrable, for every attempt to describe or name something imposes limits upon it. There is also an eerie parallel to the scientific cosmological model- beyond the veils of exitence and before the first emanation is the no-thing- the limitless light, or ain sof, which contracted into an infinite point to effect the creation of the universe.

Its father is the sun, its mother the moon. The wind has borne it, its nurse is the earth. This one thing is the father of all things in the universe.

This reflects another kabbalistic formula. “It” in this case refers to the perfected or reborn, psyche. The Mother moon is Yesod, the ego, the sphere of reflection. The Sun is tiphareth, the Higher self which can be likened to the ‘first face’ in Buddhism. It is the immortal spirit. The wind is the divine breath, the spiritual life force. The earth that nurses it is the material body, the id, our animal nature.

Its power is perfect, after it has been united with the earth.

This refers to the experience of Divine Union spoken of in mystic tractates the world over. This union is achieved by uniting the divine essence with the physical body. It is the aim of Yoga, the goal of Ritual magick, and the essence of Satori.

Separate earth from fire, the subtle from the dense, with gentle heat and much devotion.

One must learn to diferentiate between the things of matter and things of the spirit, between the yearnings of the soul and the desires of the ego- the gross appetites and vanities must be sifted out to reveal the true self.

In great measure, it ascends from earth to heaven, descends again toward earth, and recieves the force of the things above and below.

Thus you will possess the glory of the world, all obscurity shall flee away from thee.

The physical body is now integrated with the immortal soul, and the aspirant is awakened to the purpose of his existence.

This is the force of all force, it will overcome everything subtle, and penetrate everything solid.

In this manner, the world was created, but the map of this road is hidden.

This describes the personal nature of spiritual knowledge, which can only be gained through personal experience- it cannot be described accurately to one who has not yet exerienced it. Each aspirant must find the path on their own.

For this reason I am called "Hiram Telat Machasot"- one in essence, but three in aspect. In this trinity is the wisdom of the whole world.

This curious phrase is Chaldean in origin, and has been suspected as the true identity of the Hiram of Masonic legend. Chiram means ‘universal,’ and contains the root letter of the elements of air, water, and fire, a play on words that echoes the Hebrew tetragrammaton, the four letter name of God which also incorporates the elements and forms the basis for all kabbalistic doctrine.

The tablet closes:

And so I have been called: Hermes thrice greatest, having the three parts of the philosophy of the world.

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Registered: 05-06-2003
Mon, 06-21-2004 - 3:48pm
>>(Not sure what the Muslim view of Sufism is). <<

Ya know, I think Sufism is frowned upon in Islam... I think it used to be tolerated because Sufi centers were excellent sources of learning, but that was way back in the "Golden Age"....


Aside from Abrahamic religions, do all other world religions already involve a mystical aspect?

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Registered: 03-27-2003
Mon, 06-21-2004 - 6:41pm
Ya know, I think Sufism is frowned upon in Islam...

I think you are correct. I was reading up on it, and it seems that all of the western mystery traditions are considered heresies within their respective religions. Maybe we could ask our new Muslim friend who posts here now!


Aside from Abrahamic religions, do all other world religions already involve a mystical aspect?

Hmmmm. I'm not sure. Buddhism seems to the "mystic" built right in. Not sure about Hindu...I think that is your area of expertise (and please share--I would love to hear about it). =) The pagan traditions are a mixed bag. I would put it this way: I think that all the pagan traditions have Mystery traditions, but not every practitioner seeks those mysteries. Well, not even that. Learning magick is a mystery, but some don't go far beyond the *obvious* Mysteries. Some are happy on the surface There is a definitely basis for Mystery traditions in Greek and Roman pagan traditions (Elusian Mysteries were huge and a lot survives of the outer rites). On the Celtic front, portions of the Druid training would be Mysteries. In the germanic and scandanavian traditions, the word Rune *means* Mystery, and Seidr was another form of the Mysteries reserved specifically for women (lol or men who dressed like women!) I would consider Shamanism to be a mystery tradition, but that covers a lot of territory.

Your thoughts?