Sam I Am

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2004
Sam I Am
10
Mon, 06-14-2004 - 1:56pm
Caught a bit about this site on the Today Show this morning.

http://www.forgivenforlife.com/

It bills itself as "The Offical Home Page of David Berkowitz" (who you may know better as the "Son of Sam"). He had a jailhouse conversion, and the church that maintains this site put the following statement on the front page:

"This page is hosted by House upon the Rock Christian Church in San Diego, CA. We host this page because we truly believe that David is sincerely sorry for the pain he has caused in the past, and that he has truly repented and become a new person in Jesus Christ. We do not worship David Berkowitz or who/what he has become. We worship the God who changed a person like him, and can also change you."

Berkowitz (and his conversion) was also featured on "Focus on the Family" earlier this year.

Any thoughts?!?

Pete

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!"

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-07-2004
In reply to: pete1854
Mon, 06-14-2004 - 2:10pm
i went to the site and read his testimony.

i do understand some won't believe it especially with their beliefs being different but i found it to be sincere

i also don't doubt it. you see one of the worst people in the NT was Paul and he believed and became a great apostal (ok still can't spell) and God used him in a mighty way

all things are possible through Christ and that includes a serial killer turning his life over to Christ and changing.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2004
In reply to: pete1854
Mon, 06-14-2004 - 2:27pm
I'm not disputing whether his conversion was genuine - that's not up to me to decide, and there's no reason why I should automatically doubt it. I probably should have outlined this in the OP...victims' families and other people are apparently upset that he's being given the praise and fame that comes with a site that features him so prominently.

Personally, I think that it's the "Official Home Page of David Berkowitz" in the upper left with the book-jacket picture of him that's causing the stir. I think if you had the same content on a site called "Chuck Colson's Jailbird of the Week" or some such, it wouldn't stick in people's craw quite as much.

However, that's just me. I was curious about what everyone else thought...

>>became a great apostal (ok still can't spell)<<

No, I think "apostal" is just the opposite of "going postal". As in:

"He was just sitting there doing nothing. He was totally going apostal!"

;)

Pete

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!"

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-07-2004
In reply to: pete1854
Mon, 06-14-2004 - 2:55pm
groannning...you are so PUNNY

honestly, if he has truly given his life to Christ and changed I see nothing wrong with what he is trying to do. i can understand the uproar about it but overall there is a point as a Christian where you need to step back, be forgiving, and see if the fruits line up with his actions. i don't see it as being given fame or praise. i took it as a ministry starting and a letting the news started.

Avatar for jillianmarie77
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: pete1854
Mon, 06-14-2004 - 3:23pm
What did the son of sam do again?

Either way sounds like he must be high profile and iether a serial killer, sociapath, psychopath, or child molester.

LIke I've said before: These particular types of criminals can be forgiven til the cows come home. I still think they should stay locked up. Let God jduge them but let society remain free of the terror the cause.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2004
In reply to: pete1854
Mon, 06-14-2004 - 3:29pm
>>What did the son of sam do again?<<

Serial killer. Shot a bunch of people in (I believe) 1978. Spike Lee made a movie about the killings called "Summer of Sam".

Pete

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!"

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
In reply to: pete1854
Tue, 06-15-2004 - 9:56am
Oh, BARF! "Something evil" was in charge of him when he shot all those people? What a load of crap. He is a psychopath without conscience. He was a bully with a violent streak even in childhood. He was an inveterate arsonist long before he started killing. He attempted murder by stabbing first, but switched to the gun when that wasn't effective enough. He CHOSE to commit thrill killings of young women, CHOSE to taunt the police, CHOSE to shoot a couple of dogs who bothered him, CHOSE to set fire to his neighbour's place. He is incapable of the remorse he pretends to express. This website feeds into his characteristic megalomania, puts him out there in front of millions of people as he longs to be. That people buy into his "conversion" is no doubt a source of secret amusement to him, as he believes himself to be far superior in intelligence.

Pardon me while I puke.

DD

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-23-2004
In reply to: pete1854
Thu, 06-17-2004 - 2:50pm

Hooray Hooray Hip Hip Hooray!


He

Please visit my website!

http://www.stephworld.net

"Those who can make you believ

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: pete1854
Fri, 06-18-2004 - 9:29am
I was watching a talk show and the subject was women who get "romantically" involved with men in prison. There was a woman who got cheated out of her money by one such guy, and she said she really thought he had changed because he had become a Christian. One of the probation officers on the panel said something to the effect of "Every prisoner who comes before the parole board is a born again Christian"

I am very skeptical of these "jail house conversions" Not that people can't genuinely convert to Christianity or any other religion for that matter, but I see how it could be used as a tool to manipulate the parole board. I doubt that a prisoner saying that he had become a Zorastrian would sway anybody on the parole board. I would hope that the parole board would be able to discern the manipulative faux conversions from the sincere, but I imagine there would be a lot of skilled con men in prison.

BTW, thanks for the post. I find the Jewish concept that only the sinned against person can offer forgiveness to be very interesting.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-28-2004
In reply to: pete1854
Fri, 06-18-2004 - 10:21am
>>>>>someone who committed such heinous crimes certainly does deserve to feel all nice and cozy, right?<<<<

Give thanks to the Lord for he is good, his mercy endures forever.

That line is all over the OT. Yes, I believe even a murderer can be forgiven, however, the murderer needs to truly repent. It isn't enough to just give it lip service, because God cannot be mocked or fooled. If he is lying about his repentence, God will take care of it when he dies.

And while I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, I don't believe anybody should be excused from it based on religious conversion. For one thing, conversion is easy to fake, and people would be faking it right and left to avoid execution. For another, any true Christian should realize that forgiveness does not necessarily preclude consequences, and should accept the consequences of their actions.

Forgiven for life? I'd like to point out that just as all Christians do not believe all non-Christians are going to hell, we don't all believe in assured salvation, either.

Alisha

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-23-2004
In reply to: pete1854
Fri, 06-18-2004 - 11:01am

His website is called "Forgiven For Life." Berkowitz's words, not mine.


Of course anyone can find salvation, but in Judaism, it is trickier than in Christianity. I don't believe he is really repentant, as he is blaming "Satan" for HIS actions. I don't buy it, but hey, it's not up to me.


I am not saying he had no hope for forgiveness in Judaism. I am saying it would take work and no guarantees. There aren't really any guarantees of an afterlife, let alone forgiveness for a murder. I was not slamming Christianity, only saying that Judaism is works based with no guarantees, so I can see why

Please visit my website!

http://www.stephworld.net

"Those who can make you believ