Saved?Some Presbyterians & other faiths

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Registered: 03-09-2001
Saved?Some Presbyterians & other faiths
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Fri, 02-12-2010 - 1:26pm

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/02/10/national/a082549S87.DTL

"Some Presbyterians see salvation by other faiths
By DYLAN LOVAN, Associated Press Writer
Wednesday, February 10, 2010
(02-10) 13:24 PST Louisville, Ky. (AP) --

The Presbyterian Church USA's statement of faith says God through Jesus Christ delivers followers "from death to life eternal."

But one in three members of the nation's largest Presbyterian denomination seem to believe there's some wiggle room for non-Christians to get into heaven, according to a recent poll.

The Presbyterian Panel's "Religious and Demographic Profile of Presbyterians" found that 36 percent of members disagreed or strongly disagreed with the statement: "Only followers of Jesus Christ can be saved." Another 39 percent, or about two-fifths, agreed or strongly agreed with the statement.

"There seems to be some universalist streak in Presbyterianism, where some Presbyterians are open to the idea of other paths that folks in other faiths might be taking," said Perry Chang, administrator of the Presbyterian Panel, which convenes every three years.

The Presbyterian Church USA, with about 2.1 million members, is the largest Presbyterian denomination in the country. A total of 3,450 Presbyterians responded to the study, which was mailed in October 2008. The panel issued the religious and demographic report last month.

Polls asking similar questions about views on salvation have provided a wide range of results."

(article continues...)



Blessings,

Gypsy

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Flowing like a river."

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"All things share the same breath;

the beast, the tree, the man.

The Air shares its spirit with

all the life it supports."

--Chief Seattle



"If there are no dogs in Heaven,

then when I die I want to go where they went."

~Will Rogers



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can be judged by the way its animals are treated."

~~Mahatma Gandhi





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Blessings,

Gypsy

)O(



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Registered: 02-18-2006
Sat, 02-13-2010 - 9:50am

This is where the difference between northern Presbyterians and southern Presbyterians becomes VERY clear. The denomination in the US split during the Civil War. I was raised as a NORTHERN Presbyterian. I remember being very upset about my best friend Liza because she was Jewish and a classmate had told us that she was not going to go to heaven.

I had *NEVER* heard the term "Saved." People didn't get into heaven because of "salvation" according to our beliefs. They got into heaven for being good people. Devoting one's self to Jesus wasn't the way to get into heaven. Devoting one's self to living a life of which Jesus would approve *IS*. One does not even have to believe Jesus existed, because that's utterly beside the point.

The point is "Do good works regardless of where your idea to do so came from," not "Love me, I'm the awesomest!"

ETA: I've got to imagine Jesus, if he was real, was at least less petty than I am. And I used to bring food to the city for anyone who was on the street, when I worked in the city frequently. If I saw someone else doing the same and they said they got the idea from someone other than me, I would not be ticked off that they didn't give me credit, I'd be happy that they were feeding hungry people, too. If Jesus doesn't do at LEAST that much, I hope he's not real, because he'd stink :P

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Edited 2/13/2010 9:53 am ET by snow_lynx



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"'Cause love's such an old-fashioned word, and love dares you to care for the people on th
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-09-2001
Sat, 02-13-2010 - 11:41am

Yeah, the words "saved" and "salvation" were foreign terminology to me, also, in my years as a Christian, from cradle Catholic and even through more recent Episcopal, some 25+ years ago. Those terms just weren't bandied about, you know? Now, I know Catholics, especially pre-Vatican II, and now with the conservative kind of fundamentalist back to basics current Pope, that Catholicism is still believed to be the *only* "true" faith. And even with the more liberal post-Vatican II ecumenical approach, still only Catholics may receive Communion, and so forth. Because my young brain was programmed around the pre-Vatican II concepts, more so than the post-Vatican changes, I don't even know if any of that official Church position has "softened" as far as non-Catholics getting into "heaven," etc. Since I am not Christian, not Catholic or Episcopal, and haven't been for a very long time, I haven't kept up with the specifics other than news stories. :P

As a practicing Zen Buddhist and now Pagan Wiccan, these terms have no relevance whatsoever. I find it positive that some approach the "works" and "being a good person of integrity" and living that way, makes one a "worthy" person to their God. Regardless of the person's actual religious/spiritual beliefs and practices. Encouraging mutual respect is a good thing. :) But the relevance of them trying to incorporate me and what will happen for me in the after life is nil and has no meaning for me. Beyond the extended attitude of respect. I guess it all comes under the heading of each praying for those of differing God/s and beliefs, to their own particular God/s and in accordance with their own personal beliefs. After all, I do the same, in doing magic ritual and spellwork for healing, best outcomes, etc., for others. Regardless of *their* personal beliefs, too. And do so with good intention and purpose. Sending "positive energy/direction" kind of thing. ;))

Perhaps all the religious concepts of the various God/s are just different "pictures" or "snapshots" of the same Energy that operates in the entire Universe, each with traditions formulated and created and built upon through time, by various cultures and inspired spiritual leaders or philosophers? And then handed down; created by us humans to make sense of our lives and purpose. :) So, good intentions are a wonderful way to build trust and respect, and living in peace together.



Blessings,

Gypsy

)O(



Photobucket



Strong like a mountain,

Flowing like a river."

~~Tai Chi Chih



Photobucket





Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket Photobucket



Mika Dog




"All things share the same breath;

the beast, the tree, the man.

The Air shares its spirit with

all the life it supports."

--Chief Seattle



"If there are no dogs in Heaven,

then when I die I want to go where they went."

~Will Rogers



"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress

can be judged by the way its animals are treated."

~~Mahatma Gandhi





Photobucket Photobucket






Blessings,

Gypsy

)O(



iVillage Member
Registered: 04-18-2006
Sat, 02-13-2010 - 8:41pm
>>>Yeah, the words "saved" and "salvation" were foreign terminology>>>
Foreign to LDS too. I had to explain what saved meant to the women in my ward's relief society. 1st and only time I piped up.
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"Reality has a well known liberal bias" - Stephan Colbert

O Lord Lead me from the unreal to the real.
Lead me from the darkness to light.
Lead me from death to immortality.
May there be peace, peace, and perfect peace.
Brihadaranyaka Upanishads (1.3.28)
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Registered: 03-27-2003
Sat, 02-13-2010 - 9:40pm

Raised Catholic, but absolutely my experience as well. And somewhat moreso when it was what I was taught at home.

I think the very idea that you have to declare some loyalty to a particular belief - especially above and beyond how you actually behave - is just nonsense.

I don't think God gives a hoot what we call ourselves, or claim to believe. I think God cares about how we treat one another.

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Registered: 03-27-2003
Sat, 02-13-2010 - 9:43pm

Even while being taught that RC was the one true faith, there was always the idea that it was the best way, but that we could not know God's mind, and that there were quite possibly many other reasons that other people would find salvation. IOW, it wasn't up to us to decide.

Now, I don't buy the "one true faith" idea - about any faith - but the "focus on your behavior, and quit worrying about whether the next guy is ok with God" still makes much sense!