So much for the pledge being "voluntary"

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
So much for the pledge being "voluntary"
15
Mon, 07-05-2004 - 5:24pm
In all the bickering over the pledge, including weather or not the fairly recently added words "Under God" should stay or go, one typical response is "Well if you don't like it, you don't have to say it" Well Arnold Swartzneger did just that, remained silent, and World Net daily acts as if the entire US is going to fall apart because of his lack of participation.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39157

Perhaps he doesn't believe in God, and rather than be a hypocrite and say something he doesn't believe, he just chose to remain silent. There is no indication that he was behaving disrespectfully, but the World Net characterizes his silence to be the utmost sign of disrespect. I suppose its considered "respectful" to say something you don't mean rather than remain silent. The article also accuses him of disrespecting the late President (this was at a memorial for the late Reagan) but Arnold had this to say about the President

""He was a great American patriot," Schwarzenegger said in a statement. "I did not just admire him, I was fortunate enough to know him. He was a hero to me. Ronald Reagan called America the shining city on the hill. And by the force of his leadership and optimism, he renewed the promise of America. He had the courage to tell us that it was all right to stand tall and believe in our country, and believe in ourselves." "

Another gem from this article . . .

“Ironically, in his 1990 film "Kindergarten Cop," Schwarzenegger plays an undercover officer who poses as a substitute schoolteacher and leads his young students in a recitation of the pledge.”

Oh, this is a real gem. Does someone REALLY need to explain the concept of acting to the authors of this article ?

Also the article stated

“"Arnold swore an oath to 'absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty,' yet clearly has not done so. Then again, as governor, he swore to 'defend the Constitution of the United States,' but that hasn't stopped him from embracing 'gun control' and endorsing Dianne Feinstein's quest to make permanent the ban on semi-autos. So much for oaths. Like most politicians, it appears his primary loyalty is to himself. (David Codrea)

Ok, how is this showing loyalty to his native country ? It’s not like sang the national antem of Austira. But if his mere silence is seen as loyalty to his old country, why is Margaret Thatchers SAYING the pledge OUR flag not considered disloyalty to her country on her part ?



And what's with the grousing about his attempt to ban semi-automatics. I know of a few conservative politicians who swore to uphold the constitution, and then try to ban Wiccans from practicing their faith in the military. But you won't see any grousing about THAT in the World Net.

I usually find articles by World Net to be very biased, and full of "lies of omission" and plenty of spin, but this really takes the cake.

If as so many conservatives like to argue, the pledge is voluntary, so the congressional addition of the words "Under God" is no problem, if this is truly a voluntary excersise, WHY are they devoting an article attacking Arnold Schwartzneger for respectfully excercising his supposed right to remain silent ?

Often times when I attend religious events such as weddings, funerals, etc. I do not sing the prayers of hymns, I remain respectfully silent. I wonder if that too, is considered a sign of disrespect ?

Edited to add: Talk about blatant bias, I just clicked the link at the bottome of the article to one of their polls. The poll was supposedly to "sound off about the issue", but it was really a very skewed poll about American Independence. Honeslty, it looks more like an "Onion" parody than anything that one would find in a legitimate news publication.

Edited 7/5/2004 5:32 pm ET ET by idramamama


Edited 7/5/2004 5:35 pm ET ET by idramamama

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-28-2004
Tue, 07-06-2004 - 11:10am
>>>>>Live camera coverage of the event showed the chief executive of America's most populous state standing at attention, but remaining silent while Reagan relatives, friends and even former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher pledged their allegiance "to the flag of the United States of America."<<<<

I don't quite get the outrage. Schwarzenegger may not have recited the Pledge, but he stood *at attention*, silently and respectfully. As you said, maybe he doesn't believe in God. Or maybe he does believe in God, but doesn't believe in pledging anything to inanimate objects like the flag. Some perfectly reasonable people view that as a form of idolatry. As for not singing the anthem, I can think of all sorts of reasons to avoid that. I sing it proudly, but not everybody wants to glorify war, thank you very much.

So his being in favor of gun-control proves he can't really be an American? Well, they'd better get ready to ship most liberals out of the country, whether natural-born citizens or naturalized citizens. Not every citizen agrees that the Second Amendment to the Constitution means every idiot has a right to every gun that strikes his fancy.

I'm no Schwarzenegger fan. I couldn't believe it when I heard he'd been elected governor of California. I still don't understand what his suppossed qualifications were. But I don't think he did anything wrong here. There is no law that requires recitation of the Pledge under any circumstances. I guess these people who have their knickers in a twist over it had better just be thankful that as a naturalized citizen, Scharwzenegger can never run for President.

What I don't get is why Margaret Thatcher recited the Pledge. It is an oath, is it not? She swore allegiance to the *American* flag, and "the Republic for which it stands", the United States? Doesn't she owe her allegiance to Great Britain? I'm confused.

Alisha




Edited 7/6/2004 11:43 am ET ET by ivallyn38

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Tue, 07-06-2004 - 11:32am
----Qoute-------

I'm no Schwarzenegger fan. I couldn't believe it when I heard he'd been elected governor of California. I still don't understand what his suppossed qualifications were.

-----------------

ITA with everything you said. Regarding Arnie, I don't even understand what his supposed qualifications for being an actor were ;)

Like you, I found it quite amazing the the Net had considered his respectful silence during the pledge and anthem to be a sign of "loyalty" to his homeland and a sign of "disrespect" to America, but they seemed to praise Margaret Thatcher for singing our pledge. I wonder if some British Newspaper ran an attack article because she did this ? I found Margaret Thatchers participation to be more newsworthy than Arnold's respectful non participation.

Another thing I don't get, is that this article published the very admiring words Arnold had to say about the late President, and yet they STILL considered his silence to be a sign of disprespect to Reagan. Talk about not being able to put an action into context.

I did a google search to see if any other newspaper covered this non-story, or if Arnold gave any explanation that the Net seems to think should be mandated to give. I couldn't find anyone else who covered this "news event"

I guess other papers don't think that someone NOT saying the pledge is a "story".

I'm surprised the Net used this non-incident to attack Mr. Schwarzeneger. When I was searching the net, I found that Mr. Schwarzeneger favors prayer in public schools. I guess his policies on gun control is what really has earned him the ire of this news publication.

Clicking on the related article, also in World Net, I found this

"I didn't notice it when it took place. It was brought to my attention by a caller to my radio program. I had to go back and check the tapes. Sure enough, the caller was right."

OK, so initially the author didn't even notice it. It had to be called to his attention, yet he calls this behavior "unseemly". If Arnold had stood their raising his fist, making faces, or shouting anti-American slogans that would have been unseemly. But his quiet reserved silence, which initially went unnoticed, is unseemly ? Sheeeeeeeesh!


Edited 7/6/2004 11:41 am ET ET by idramamama

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Tue, 07-06-2004 - 5:04pm

"What I don't get is why Margaret Thatcher recited the Pledge. It is an oath, is it not? She swore allegiance to the *American* flag, and "the Republic for which it stands", the United States? Doesn't she owe her allegiance to Great Britain? I'm confused."


I absolutely love that woman.

~christine~

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-28-2004
Tue, 07-06-2004 - 5:15pm
I don't know the words to "God Save the Queen", but if any part of it required me to swear allegiance, fealty, or loyalty to the Queen, Great Britain, or England, I would not sing it, as much as I might wish good health and long life to the Queen. I owe my allegiance to the country of which I am a citizen, the United States of America. You don't swear an oath just to show your respect for a country or a citizen, even a very prominent citizen. You don't swear an oath at all unless you mean it, every last word of it. Margaret Thatcher may well feel kindly disposed toward the United States and wish us all sorts of success and good fortune, but that is not the same as "allegiance".

Alisha

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Tue, 07-06-2004 - 6:04pm
Ok.....how about this..... how do you know she ISN'T pledging allegiance to the flag and meaning it???????
~christine~


~"...but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."~Philippians 4:6-7

~christine~

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-28-2004
Tue, 07-06-2004 - 6:07pm
If she does mean it, she is misplacing her loyalty, which she owes to another country, not to us.

Alisha

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Tue, 07-06-2004 - 6:13pm
LOL....she can't do both?????

~christine~

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-28-2004
Tue, 07-06-2004 - 6:31pm
Matthew 6:24

No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other.



Luke 16:13

No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other.

This was about divided loyalties between God and Money, but I really think it can apply to divided loyalties, period.

Alisha

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Tue, 07-06-2004 - 8:54pm
If Margaret Hatcher doesn't owe her country anything, do you think Arnold "owes" his country anything ? I you think it is acceptable for Margaret to pledge her allegiance to a country to which she is NOT a citizen, do you think it is acceptable for Arnold to remain silent during the pledge ? Do you think he deserved to be trashed for his mere silence ?

Why can't Arnold do "both". Why can't he respect Ron Reagan, by saying kind words to him, and remain silent during the pledge and the National Anthem. Why do you think this paper is acting as if he committed a grievous criminal act. Do you agree with this article that Arnold "owes" us an explanation. ? And since this is a Christian paper, do you think this is a Christian issue ? I am wondering why a religiou paper would get their undies in a bunch over someone remaining respectfully silent over the pledge.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-31-2003
Tue, 07-06-2004 - 10:20pm

Is it possible that Arnold spiritually/religiously/personally feels that "pledging" to the flag is having two masters - God and Flag?

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