The Stained-Glass Ceiling

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2004
The Stained-Glass Ceiling
10
Thu, 06-24-2004 - 4:56pm
I haven't even read all of it yet, so I don't know if it's any good, but I thought you might be interested in this Time article about female clergy:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040628-655431,00.html?cnn=yes

Pete

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!"

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2004
Thu, 06-24-2004 - 9:22pm
I really don't find this surprising or upsetting. In some ways it is like politics where woman haven't fared so well either. Mainline congregations tend to be older in age (like voters) and they have more traditional ideas about gender roles. In my community there are lots of woman in pastorships or co-pastorships with their spouses in non-denominational churches which tend to have younger congregations.

Mary

Mary 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-21-2004
Sat, 06-26-2004 - 9:40am
Thanks for posting this.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Thu, 07-01-2004 - 10:43pm
Women "teachers" isn't Biblical.

~christine~

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2004
Mon, 07-05-2004 - 8:05pm
>>>A pastor is a teacher? Women are "teaching" men in the church?

Yup and I have no problem with it.

Mary

Mary 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Tue, 07-06-2004 - 8:37am
You may have no problem with it, but the Bible does.
~christine~


~"...but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."~Philippians 4:6-7

~christine~

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2004
Tue, 07-06-2004 - 5:05pm
Actually the word "authority" in 1 Timothy 2:12 is best understood as usurping authority. Taking an authority not theirs - to have the upper hand, to "lord over", to dominate. These women are guilty of failing to practice their part in mutual submission.

I think the issue here in this church was that the woman were trying to unseat Timothy and take over the church from the properly authorized/installed men. Remember this is the church in Ephesis where Aritmis worship was firmly entrenched - (see Acts 19:54). One way to deal with this insurrection was to prohibit the women from teaching men. These women are guilty of failing to practice their part in mutual submission. This is one of those cases where knowing the cultural and social setting is important to understand the verse, IMHO.

This word authenteo is only used once in the whole Bible. Another meaning is "one who with his own hands kills another or himself" This meaning explains how the authority being taken is inappropriate as in taking a life you usurp God's authority to give life and take it away. Again they were trying to take authority that they were not given by God to take. Other women in another time or place may in fact be called to be a pastor. These women were not. They were trying to take that authority away from those who were duly called.

In some cases a woman teaching a man or men can be inappropriate as it can set up a potentially tempting situation.

Anyway that is my understanding of the verse. I know others disagree.

Mary


Mary 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2004
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 11:15am
>>that is my understanding of the verse<<

You may have mentioned it before and I missed it, but does your denomination have female clergy? And if not, would you support its doing so? From your reading of Timothy, it sounds like you would, but I wasn't sure.

Pete

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!"

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-09-2001
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 3:23pm
Way back in the late 70s I observed major conflict in the national Episcopal Church hierarchy, regarding "permitting" women to become priests (dare we call them Priestesses...uh, no, probably not, LOL!). Interestingly enough, given how ultra conservative the Episcopal Church is, the national convention voted for it. There was such conflict that some local churches officially withdrew from the diocese and national church because of this, billing themselves the "traditional" Episcopal Church. Yet many who were still against it, stuck with the national church, figuring they could work to change things back the way they were at a future national conference. Now, well over 20 years later, I hear many of these very same members of various Episcopal congregations that I am acquainted with (some are family) absolutely RAVING about their women priests, and how much more intuitive and compassionate and sensitive they are to their parishoners' needs. :P They have come to recognize the great gift (of the Goddess, IMO, of course) women often have, of nurturing and healing skills, as well as intuitive guidance. They have come to accept that women and men who are priests bring unique gifts and work well as a parish team. And after all that yelling and screaming about it all... Amazing... ;))


Blessings,

Gypsy

)O(



iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2004
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 4:21pm
My denomination takes the it's not an essential teaching approach and leaves it up to each congregation, however I wouldn't attend a church that didn't allow female pastors, elders and deacons.

Mary

Mary 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2004
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 4:27pm
Thanks...

Pete

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!"