Day-care costs and the economy

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-10-2003
Day-care costs and the economy
458
Wed, 07-09-2008 - 1:10pm

The NYT had an article this weekend about raising the price of their day-care costs.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 07-26-2007
Thu, 07-17-2008 - 4:23am

While the relative merits of the two day care philosophies are all very interesting, the fact remains the entire point of an in-house child care program is so that your employees can concentrate on their jobs. Pricing your employees out of the program by raising the rates 75% (without commensurate increases in salaries) makes the whole thing just an masturbatory exercise in ego-stroking.

"See? How wonderful we are by providing child care onsite? Pay no attention to the fact that your salary will not even begin to cover the costs of this 'perk'."

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Kitty

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Kitty

"BTW, I hate Lifetime. Their movies will suck you in and all of a sudden you've watched 3 in a row, used every tissue in t

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-26-2007
Thu, 07-17-2008 - 4:26am

having 10 babies to 2 teachers and 13 toddlers to 1 teacher and 16 2 YO to 1 teacher ect, they really didn't get the care they needed.

Woof! Glad I don't live in your state! Fortunately my state's DC ratios are sane.

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Kitty

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Kitty

"BTW, I hate Lifetime. Their movies will suck you in and all of a sudden you've watched 3 in a row, used every tissue in t

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-26-2007
Thu, 07-17-2008 - 4:31am

The centers I worked in had a revolving door of workers. It's hard to get hired because they don't want to loose you so they are very picky.

If the first statement is true, the second cannot be. Pick one, get back to us.

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Kitty

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Kitty

"BTW, I hate Lifetime. Their movies will suck you in and all of a sudden you've watched 3 in a row, used every tissue in t

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-08-2006
Thu, 07-17-2008 - 7:07am

don't you spend ANY morning time with them at all?

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-17-2007
Thu, 07-17-2008 - 8:54am

"I was told they were within ratio. 1-4 in infants UNLESS there's 2 teachers which would be 2-10."

That doesn't make sense.

"Now, I'm looking at the current standards and I think they must have changed because we never had it that low and I do remember checking on them."

Must have, or perhaps a little backtracking on your part?

"BTW, I have worked in many daycares- Lapetite, Kids R kids, Primrose, YMCA, and several others (at least three) and the ratios were never as low as the current listing online. "

Wow, you have worked on at least seven different daycares. How long did you work in each?

"When you have worked in so many daycares and see the exact same ratios you assume that it's CORRECT. Why wouldn't it be? "

Why wouldn't it be? The plural of anecdote is not data. You worked in 7 daycares, how many daycares are there in your area? The state? The country? NOt a high enough statistical population.

"As for neglect, the children were fed (well as long as they weren't too slow) on a set schedule (sorry if you have special needs, feeding is at set times.) They were put down for a nap, although often the child cried themselves to sleep. They were changed regularly. Their necessities were taken care of, so I don't think the authorities would listen to a cry of neglect. But in MY book they were neglected. No one could do anymore, we needed more teachers."

The neglect I mentioned was when you specifically referred to *one* particular child whose parents routinely did not pick up on time. You even said that you took the child home with you - which was against policy. That is what the authorities would respond. Not overall "neglect" (IYO) at the center. Otherwise, much of what you describe is a routine or schedule- which many sahps have too. Some children cry themselves to sleep at certain stages - it is not exclusive to children napping at daycare. Again, you needed more teachers because the center was either out of compliance or had higher ratios than exist elsewhere. Just because you worked in a center or seven like that, does not mean *all* or even *most* centers are understaffed.

"And just because they have a certain number of workers there when you are there doesn't mean it's always like that. At Primrose they had lots of workers during the 8-9 hour and the 4-5 hours so they parents would think it was always like that. They also told parents that although they are welcome to drop in anytime please call ahead of time so that their presence is not a disruption in a particular activity. The teacher will let mom know when a good time will be to visit. OF course then there are more teacher aids in there when she visits and if she is there unannounced the director will make sure to get another teacher in there ASAP."

Well, again, you experience is not universal. At both the centers my children attended, parents dropped in all the time - no advance notice required or expected. The ratios were constant. In fact, it was not unheard of to have a parent spend a half or full day at the center.

"As for most of the kids only being there 8-5 that has never been the case in any of the daycares I've been in except YMCA daycamp. Most children are there 11 hours or longer."

Again, that is *your* experience. Not mine. The average time spent in daycare for dual wohps in the US is something like 30 or 32 hours a week - a far far cry from what you observed and much closer to what I observed.

"Stereotyped? Then so be it but I have so much experience and such bad experiences that my views should be considered. "

Yes, stereotypical. We have seen many posters over the years. Posters with nearly the same "experiences" are you have "reported" and almost always, their posts start to unravel as they have forgotten all the exaggerations they have posted. Despite your "many" (seven, I think it was) different daycares, it is *still* anecdotal.

I don't doubt that there are bad daycares out there. I don't doubt that there are bad sahps out there. However, there are plenty of good and great daycares and sahps. You do not have to paint a grotesque view of daycares to make yourself feel better about sah. SAH is a perfectly reasonable choice to make without denigrating another perfectly reasonable choice to make.

"And yes, I did have many many sick children in my care. I know they aren't supposed to be there but I'm busy and don't notice the child is sick until after the parent leaves and then the parent does not pick up the child when called. "

Then you were probably, not following stated policy. The policy at my boys old daycares, included moving the sick child to an ante room off the office- while he/she waited for a parent to pick up. If they didn't couldn't make contact, their alternate emergency designate would be called. If there was a problem with a child not being picked up in a timely manner- sick or at the end of the day- the child would be expelled from the daycare. Policies are only effective if the staff follow them- it appears that you were one who did not (since you have already admitted to taking a child home when he/she was not picked up in a timely manner). If I were your Director, I would have fired you on the spot.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-15-2006
Thu, 07-17-2008 - 9:27am

thank you for sharing an honest account of what you see.


while most observations of the dc,the preschools i've had the pleasure to be involved with are fantastic ones,there are some and some online opinions i've read that paint a picture of how awful some others really are.


the summer before my oldest entered kinder,i was encouraged to place her in an all day camp away from me,to get her used to being with others for an extended period of time,etc.

 

Avatar for springolife
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-09-2003
Thu, 07-17-2008 - 9:41am

"The centers I worked in had a revolving door of workers. It's hard to get hired because they don't want to loose you so they are very picky.

If the first statement is true, the second cannot be. Pick one, get back to us."

They don't mutually exclude each other. That, or I am a complete idiot and I don't believe that for a second. So I will go into lots of detail on why there can be both a high turn over rate and picky employers.

Because the workers quit so often the directors/managers hire employees that they think will stay. They do not choose employees they are afraid will need to be fired or may be overwhelmed with the job or otherwise quit. So they take a LONG time choosing employees. I saw in all the day cares people come and go during interviews for weeks before someone was hired.

Then, the person starts working there and either leaves because of the poor student/teacher ratio, because of lack of discipline in the class (I saw a teacher leave after one day because one of the 3 YOs kept screaming, cussing, kicking and punching her and would run from her and hide in another room) or because of problems with the management. Being told to pee in a cup would definitely be an encouragement to someone to quit. I quit PRimrose because I was pregnant and they would not allow me to take one day a month to go to the dr. I figured since the school was open 12+ hours a day that I could still work a full eight hours and be able to go to my OBGYN who had apts at 7AM and was right down the street. But no, no dr apts allowed for any reason. How crazy is that?

See, the managers thought that it was a problem with the employees, not with the management. So they tried to weed out the problem employees in the interview process but since the problem was with the managers it didn't work too well and the people still left.

One YMCA I worked for did not have a staff issue whatsoever. But the other one did and it was because of the hellish manager!

How do I know the problem wasn't just with me? Because I was always one of the LAST to leave the company. Except Primrose. I worked for two weeks for them without pay before I quit. "training" is unpaid. I had a degree, why did I need 'training?' I was working and thus should have been paid. But in any case, good riddance.

Sarah

Remembering Ozanzan 80%
Avatar for springolife
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-09-2003
Thu, 07-17-2008 - 10:01am

"Then you were probably, not following stated policy. The policy at my boys old daycares, included moving the sick child to an ante room off the office- while he/she waited for a parent to pick up. If they didn't couldn't make contact, their alternate emergency designate would be called. If there was a problem with a child not being picked up in a timely manner- sick or at the end of the day- the child would be expelled from the daycare. Policies are only effective if the staff follow them- it appears that you were one who did not (since you have already admitted to taking a child home when he/she was not picked up in a timely manner). If I were your Director, I would have fired you on the spot."

Be glad you weren't the director because I would have sued you. The DIRECTOR made those decisions. Good try though. It was all on her head. We had no place for sick kids and she allowed them to continue coming to the center. She is the one who made the phone calls (how am I going to make phone calls when I have no cell phone, no child records or access to them, and no one to care for my classroom while I do so?) There was never a place for a sick child in the centers I worked in nor was there someone to watch them. The manager/director (both never seemed to be there at the same time) was just too busy to look after a sick child.

There is no point in arguing all the stuff you posted as you said there have been MANY other people who had the same stories as I. You didn't listen to them why would you listen to me? I DID have a book of state regulations in my classroom as I had to learn it all to get my certification I previously mentioned. The Lapetite where most of my concentrated experience was derived from (worked there nearly a year) was undergoing special accreditation and we had LOTS of people in and out of there watching how we did things. They NEVER complained about our ratios, even in the infant room where we had the 2/10 ratio. They DID complain that we didn't wash our hands before touching a baby or immediately when we came into the room, though, so they were pretty picky. But yes, the ratios went along with the other daycares I worked at and we had inspectors come through occasionally in those as well although they weren't trying to be acredited.

As for calling CPS on our families, we were taught in training that was the director's call. If you suspect something you tell the director and then she makes that decision wither to report it. The little girl I took home- I took her to HER house not mine. I called her mother and said the father had not come yet and she said I could bring her home. My manager also agreed to it. Against policy, yes but not against the law as I did have permission.

Remembering Ozanzan 80%
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Thu, 07-17-2008 - 10:06am

Because the workers quit so often the directors/managers hire employees that they think will stay.


Well, you just disproved your own argument. You worked at 7 daycares in your tenure as a daycare provider. Your attention span in relation to your profession was that of a gnat.


Just as a side note...


You must not be too worried about a slander suit given the fact that you named the centers outloud. You have spoken pretty disparagingly about quite a few centers.

suzjuly6.jpg picture by LadyCaribou

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-27-1998
Thu, 07-17-2008 - 10:07am

Did you report these daycares?


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I can't answer that for you.

PumpkinAngel

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