The "selfish" issue was brought up by me, I think. I did not say that SAH was fundamentally "selfish," merely that when SAH proponents are pressed on the why it is better for their kids, many of the reasons that they give are essentially "selfish" in the sense that it is about mom, not about the kids. A typical one is "I would miss my kids too much if I went to work." I think that one, as well as simply because someone wants to SAH are perfectly fine reasons. There is nothing wrong with doing that which makes you happy.
I do hear you, and there are many ways to reach the end goal. As far as repetition, I think all kids need it and need to learn how to put up with what sems like mindless repetition. They may not "need" it for the particular skill being drilled at that time, but they will need the skill of being able to put up with it later on. For things like grammar, drill is necessary even if all the kids already speak perfectly well. The idea is to reach the point where the correct ending or spelling comes automatically and that can only be achieved with some degree of drill. That said, some schools overdo it and the balance can certainly be hard to find.
"I have to say I don't really get the idea of needing to learn the skill of putting up with drills. Is that part of life?"
It is if you ever want to be really good at something. Such as music or athletics. Or if you want to just KNOW what to do in case of emergency- which is the point of fire drills and all other safety drills. The ability to take something from 80%learned to 100% learned requires drills. Theory will only take you part of the way. Drills train rote memory (so you don't have to use the slower abstract reasoning every single time you want to know what 5x5 is) and drills train muscle memory. That application is obvious in music and athletics but you're a writing teacher. Don't you think it's easier for kids to write if their hand muscles have muscle memory for forming letters? I just think the sentence and my hand does the rest by itself. That only comes with significant repetition.
ds' soccer season just ended and dds recital is in a couple week at a time still to be determined..dh not only heped coach ds' soccer but he attended almost eveyr single game (satrudays).
OK, if that is your profession, you do know what I am talking about, lol. IME, only about 5-10% will learn consistently good spelling and grammar on the fly, through reading and writing freely. Most other people need drill if they are to be saved from writing "their" instead of "there." In languages where endings may sound the same but are spelled differently (true of Greek, my dd's school language, and equally true of Danish, btw) systematic grammar drill becomes particularly important, but I think it is important in any language. Even if you are one of the people in that 5-10% it is important to be made conscious of the structure of the language and learn the vocabulary that enables you to discuss how language works.
The reason I think kids need the skill of being able to put up with drills is that later when they are learning foreign languages, and especially dead languages, they will need to be able to drill themselves in order to learn. Granted, I am coming at this as someone who was required to learn four foreign languages in school and whose dd is required to learn three, but even in college I had to drill myself in various subjects, like trig formulas (blech) because I never took trig in HS and art history. In art history we were required to have maybe 200 images with names and dates memorized for exams. The poster above who talked about music and athletics made good points as well.
I see your point, and I agree there are some things that require repetition, but don't kids get enough repetition through the kinds of activities that actually require it, without needing to do it
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i must have missed the post where someone said sah was being selfish.
I think there's value in repetition for kids who need it, but not for the kids who don't need it.
Well, in my job (writing teacher) I definitely do see some young adults who could have used more grammar drills when they were young. ;)
"I have to say I don't really get the idea of needing to learn the skill of putting up with drills. Is that part of life?"
It is if you ever want to be really good at something. Such as music or athletics. Or if you want to just KNOW what to do in case of emergency- which is the point of fire drills and all other safety drills. The ability to take something from 80%learned to 100% learned requires drills. Theory will only take you part of the way. Drills train rote memory (so you don't have to use the slower abstract reasoning every single time you want to know what 5x5 is) and drills train muscle memory. That application is obvious in music and athletics but you're a writing teacher. Don't you think it's easier for kids to write if their hand muscles have muscle memory for forming letters? I just think the sentence and my hand does the rest by itself. That only comes with significant repetition.
OK, if that is your profession, you do know what I am talking about, lol. IME, only about 5-10% will learn consistently good spelling and grammar on the fly, through reading and writing freely. Most other people need drill if they are to be saved from writing "their" instead of "there." In languages where endings may sound the same but are spelled differently (true of Greek, my dd's school language, and equally true of Danish, btw) systematic grammar drill becomes particularly important, but I think it is important in any language. Even if you are one of the people in that 5-10% it is important to be made conscious of the structure of the language and learn the vocabulary that enables you to discuss how language works.
The reason I think kids need the skill of being able to put up with drills is that later when they are learning foreign languages, and especially dead languages, they will need to be able to drill themselves in order to learn. Granted, I am coming at this as someone who was required to learn four foreign languages in school and whose dd is required to learn three, but even in college I had to drill myself in various subjects, like trig formulas (blech) because I never took trig in HS and art history. In art history we were required to have maybe 200 images with names and dates memorized for exams. The poster above who talked about music and athletics made good points as well.
Edited 11/18/2007 1:57 pm ET by sild
Oh, I agree that you can't expect kids to learn grammar and spelling just from reading.
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