Do children equal entitlement?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Do children equal entitlement?
96
Sun, 07-20-2003 - 8:55pm
Based on the conversation below - does having children translate into a sense of entitlement - IE I don't care what the rule is I have a child so I can / can't do this.

To the dr's example, it seems that the common sense approach would be to make sure that the doctor has a child friendly waiting room. Other's say it wouldn't matter if they needed to see the doctor they would go with children, regardless of the office policy. I am still a bit puzzled as to what kind of gynelogical emergency would send you to the office with your children (when you are aware of such a policy) and not to the ER or urgent care... Does a killer yeast infection and no babysitter entitle you to break the rules? I guess that could just be the set up I work with as far as insurance/my dr's group... If you know you don't have back up help isn't it your responsibility to make sure that the caregivers you choose for yourself are equipped to handle that? And tangentially, as I encountered in my OB's office that DOES allow children, if you had an appt and no care lined up and your child was contagious, would your right to care supercede the rest of the patients? Would you still bring the child with you?

How far does that carry? And what does it teach the children? What about movies? Do you observe rules of no children after 6 when you go the movies? A restaraunt? The community pool? Another tangent - from when someone talking about lack of respect coming from daycare - I was at the community pool recently. THey announced it was time to get out for a 10 min lifeguard break, all people out of the pool, no kids at the edge, out of the kiddie pool, etc.. .The kids with the daycare/summer camp got out and sat on their towels in their area. Other's who were there with parents/grandparents played at the edge of the pool while their parents watched them.... I knew a woman who lied about her dd's age and took her to a musical. They ask you POINT BLANK if your child is 6, 8(?) years old when you order the tix. She then complained that her dd (4-5) didn't enjoy it.

SUS

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-24-2003
Sun, 07-20-2003 - 9:04pm
I think you make some good points. Here's a little one that got on my nerves. We were on vacation recently, and ate in a restaurant that served children free if they were 12 or under. The hostess asked my son how old he was and he said '13'. She winked at him and said, 'You're 12? I thought so.' Now, maybe that seems like a small issue, but we've taken the trouble to teach the kid honesty, so I said, 'No, he's waited a long time to be 13, and 13 he is'. It ticked me off. Rules are rules. Now if the OWNER had come by and offered my child a free meal, we would have thanked him/her and accepted.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sun, 07-20-2003 - 10:39pm
Entitlement, no. But I have become more aware of child-friendly practices and patronize those places regularily.

Dh and I tend to drag the kids everywhere. We don't expect the doctor's office to provide entertainment for my kids, but I do appreciate if they do. Although they don't get to play with toys at the doctor's much, after all, sick kids played with those. I come with a diaper bag full of goodies.

We don't live near family and move frequently, so I don't always have someone to watch them. I have taken my older son to the chiropractor, my ob appointments (not internals), and to dentist appointments. In each situation, I take responsibility for him. If he were to act up, I would leave and make another appointment. Luckily, that never happened.

We go to restaurants that have a children's menu and a noisy atmosphere. We don't bring our kids to the movies unless we go to an outdoor theater, where we watch the movie from our car. Our kids aren't very loud and are very well behaved, but I won't take any chances.

So no, I don't think parents are entitled to special services because they have kids. I think parents need to be diligent over where they bring their kids to make sure sure their children will not hinder another's good time.

Jill

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Sun, 07-20-2003 - 11:35pm
No, having children does NOT equal entitlement.

This is all just a matter of common courtesy. How many times on this debate board and the one at Parentsplace was it discussed that EVERYONE should have emergency childcare arrangements made ahead of time? Especially sahm's.

I was a sahm for 5 yrs and am now a wahm and pt wohm. I have developed a network of people with whom I would be very comfortable leaving my children with in an emergency. Regular dr. appts are made weeks, if not months in advance. That is plenty of time in which to arrange childcare. I have had two miscarriages during which I left my child with a friend at a moments notice. My dh was involved in a fatality auto accident (NOT his fault) and I was able to leave my children with another friend at a moments notice with the offer of two other persons standing.

Even if one is new to an area, there are babysitting services in which all personnel have been screened and background checked. If I were moving into a new area, I would immediately contact an agency and have one in place just in case it would be needed BEFORE I developed a network of personal contacts with whom I felt comfortable.

I tend to take my children with me everywhere. They run all errands with me. They have waited at the DMV numerous times. I have taken them to the dr. with me when I have had acute illnesses such as kidney infections and the flu. BUT, there are simply some instances in which the presence of children is neither appropiate or in their best interest. For instance, my children have attended visiting hours at funeral homes (after a great deal of coaching and explanation)but never a funeral. I would not take them while making arrangements for a funeral. Their grandmother is quite ill and I expect they will be attending a funeral soon, but they will not be present while specific arrangements are being discussed.

There are certain situations which are strictly adult only and the insertion of children into them is not only offensive to other adults but potentially harmful to the children as well.

As has been stated many times in many previous debates, having children is a lifestyle choice which should not be thrust upon anyone else. IMHO, of course! But, then again, I am also the mother who is about to put a sign on her bathroom that says, "Adults only, no one under the age of 40 permitted!"

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sun, 07-20-2003 - 11:36pm
No. Emphatically.

Now, I think that being human entitles everyone to exceptions every now and then but they should be exceptions, not the rule. Using the Dr. example, we all need to choose the health care that fits our needs. We can't expect them to accommodate our preferences if they change. If a OB/GYN has a no kid policy we should respect it, if they allow kids we shouldn't complain about seeing kids in their waiting room if our circumstances change.

There's no excuse for parents who knowingly lie about their kids' ages for personal or financial gain. They are setting a terrible example but sometimes I wonder if the parents aren't purposely teaching them how to beat the system. Which is why the system is so expensive imo.

Being a parent entitles you to be treated the same as any other human being on the face of this earth. No more, no less.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-12-2002
Mon, 07-21-2003 - 12:08am
I purposefully picked a family practice when choosing my doctor so that I COULD take my kids with me. They see the same doctor, so it isn't an issue for me to take them with me.

As far as your other questions:

>>>>What about movies? Do you observe rules of no children after 6 when you go the movies?<<<<

Do some places have rules of no children after 6 in a movie theater? I have never heard of that, though we always go to daytime movies b/c they are cheaper!

>>>A restaraunt?<<<

Our kids go to any restaurance we go to. We haven't been to a "no kids allowed" restaurant, and I doubt we will go to one soon. We do go to nice restaurants, but I've never come across one that has a no kids policy.

>>>The community pool? Another tangent - from when someone talking about lack of respect coming from daycare - I was at the community pool recently. THey announced it was time to get out for a 10 min lifeguard break, all people out of the pool, no kids at the edge, out of the kiddie pool, etc.. .The kids with the daycare/summer camp got out and sat on their towels in their area. Other's who were there with parents/grandparents played at the edge of the pool while their parents watched them....<<<<

The only community pool we use is the YMCA and our neighborhood pool. The neighborhood pool doesn't have a lifeguard, but I STRONGLY enforce my own rules of no running, no jumping, no splashing people in the face at ANY pool we go to.

One thing about me taking my kids everywhere with me is that they are expected to behave everywhere we go. They know, very well, what is expected of them, and I very rarely have issues with them. More often than not, I get continuous compliments about them from complete strangers.





Okmrsmommy-36, CPmom to DD-16 and DS-14

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-12-2002
Mon, 07-21-2003 - 12:17am
But it isn't always as easy as "EVERYONE should have emergency childcare arrangements made ahead of time".

For several years, I was SAH with two toddlers (and at one point an infant and an 18 month old) and a disabled husband. It was completely normal for my husband to have 2-4 doctors appointments each week. He always had a minimum of two. Sure, I could sometimes get the guys he worked with to take him, but over time, their willingness to help out diminished. Sure, I have family here, and so does he, but again, over time, their ability and interest in helping diminished. Which left me, toting my two young children and my disabled husband to appointment after appointment. Yes, I took my kids to the doctors appointments. If anyone had a problem with it, they didn't mention it to me, and it is a darned good thing they didn't because I probably would have ridden their rears up one end of the hospital and down the other. And yes, one of those doctors offices was the type that prefered that children not attend, but what would YOU suggest? We didn't have a choice as to that doctor b/c it was ordered by the military for DH, so they got to deal with my kids for a bit. They will survive.

My only point...we don't always have a choice. We don't always have emergency back up. Just something to remember.

Okmrsmommy-36, CPmom to DD-16 and DS-14

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Mon, 07-21-2003 - 12:44am
This bugs me

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You couldn't drop him off, wait outside in the car w/the kids and pick him up when he came out? If he needed assistance in and out and was alone they wouldn't have provided it? Sounds like you were accommodating YOUR needs first and foremost.

Why did that doctor's office prefer that children not attend? Sometimes certain doctors' offices deal with patients who have cancer or compromised immune systems and their exposure to minor illnesses could be fatal. Mayhaps the office survived but how do you know for sure someone who might have been exposed to one of your children's minor (to you) pre-sniffles didn't?

Can you possibly comprehend that some rules are in place for reasons that encompass more than just *you* and *your* family?

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-12-2002
Mon, 07-21-2003 - 1:05am
>>>You couldn't drop him off, wait outside in the car w/the kids and pick him up when he came out? If he needed assistance in and out and was alone they wouldn't have provided it? Sounds like you were accommodating YOUR needs first and foremost.

Why did that doctor's office prefer that children not attend? Sometimes certain doctors' offices deal with patients who have cancer or compromised immune systems and their exposure to minor illnesses could be fatal. Mayhaps the office survived but how do you know for sure someone who might have been exposed to one of your children's minor (to you) pre-sniffles didn't?

Can you possibly comprehend that some rules are in place for reasons that encompass more than just *you* and *your* family?<<<<

The office was the office of my husband neuro-surgeon. They PREFERED to not have children in the office, it wasn't demanded, such as other doctors offices I have seen. They PREFERRED to have no children because they were a "high class" establishment with a high "reputation".

No, I couldn't just drop him off, because he was so heavily medicated at the time that his memory was not working at all. It was like I had three toddlers. *I* did all the talking to the doctors, the answering of questions, the scheduling of surgeries and appointments, etc. Unfortantely, my husband wasn't up to it. So, like I said, no, I didn't have another choice, and anyone who had issue with it didn't say anything.


Okmrsmommy-36, CPmom to DD-16 and DS-14

Avatar for virgogirl914
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 07-21-2003 - 1:24am
With all due respect for you, your family, and what must have been a difficult situation, but you had other choices but opted to take the route that would have inconvenienced strangers rather than friends or family.

You said you and your husband had family there. ..you've talked about your various family members. . .I understand not wanting to be a burden on the 'family', but families are supposed to be for supporting each other during difficult times.

Also, if you were near a military base you should have had access to hourly care through the military child care system. They offer respite care for spouses of deployed soldiers at no cost, so they might have been able to help you, as well.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Mon, 07-21-2003 - 1:32am
They were a high class operation with a high reputation? What does that mean exactly? That they would not have accepted children as patients or that they didn't want children of patients in the waiting room?

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So, if he were a single guy and didn't have you to do his talking for him he wouldn't have gotten the medical care he needed?

Of course you had a choice and you made it and it was allowed. If they didn't have an issue it is because they were nice people who cut you a break.


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