how do i convince my husband
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how do i convince my husband
| Mon, 07-18-2005 - 4:09pm |
how do i convince my husband to let me at least job-share so i can take care of our 3 month old dd? he grew up with his mom working & all his friend's moms working. we can afford it if we cut back on some things, but he doesn't want to cut back & just doesn't understand someone wanting to be a stay at home mom...it doesn't help mycause that the grandmothers will babysit. i'm so unhappy about having to go back to work...he wants me to work full time 1 more year & just doesn't get it! i feel like my heart is being ripped from my chest every time i hink about it.

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"How did they do the housework or the breastfeeding if they were WOH for long periods of time." If they were a WOHM (often because they were a servant or slave), somebody else did both. If they were a servant or slave, they likely lived surrounded by many other women who could do these things, not as peasants on their own farm. I'm guessing (but could be wrong) that the WAHMS (almost all of them being peasants scraping out a living on some farmland that may or may not be theirs) outnumbered the WOHMS. Do you think the queen allowed her servants to bring their kids to work? Do you think she CARED? I'm not about to argue that most women were WOHMS rather than WAHMS because I think the reverse is true. But WOHMS did exist and those who were slaves or servants had to just pray that somebody else actually would take care of their babies. SAHMS in the modern sense (those who spend the bulk of their time caring for their own children) didn't exist.
"And you as a *WOHM* also 'do less housework than women of the past had to. Far less'" Absolutely true. I live in the same industrialized, modern-convenience-filled world that you do. I know for a fact that I do less housework than women of the past simply because I live in a 1st world country in the 21st century. I haven't been trying to convince you that I do just as much as they did. I've been trying to convince you that you don't.
"BTW, what about the amount of very *real* mothering? Has the amount of *real* mothering changed dramatically as well?" It DEFINATELY has. VERY dramatically. The whole concept of making sure that children are safely supervised is a modern one. And that supervision is what eats up a chunk of the SAHM's day. WOHMs have somebody else do the supervising while they are at work, but the point remains that this whole requirement of supervision is extremely new. Any attempt to raise a child according to pre-20th century standards (or even more recently) would result in neglect charges.
"Hmm so you think that 'supervising'='nurturing'=very real mothering'?" Most of what a mother (or any caregiver) has to do is supervision. What exactly do you mean by "nurturing" and when do you think a woman of the past would have had time to do it? Look around your house and your neighborhood. You can go to the store and buy food and clothes. You can buy gas/firewood/oil. You don't have to spend one minute raising animals in order to stay alive and clothes. You don't have to spend one minute gathering firewood in order not to freeze to death in the winter. All the things you can just BUY took endless time to accomplish before buying them was possible. Whatever time was left over could be spent on feeding (breast or food) and teaching the kids how to do chores. What else do you think they had time for?
Elaine: "Is it a problem
Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color. Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable.
"In my case, not true. I always try and go into a debate with an open mind and with the hope of learning something."
So what have you learned from this particular debate?
***However, having additional similar options (pumping/bottle - formula) has done nothing but create ADDITIONAL options for people, it has not taken away from the simplest form - it is still there for those who are capable of it (the women in my family are not). We have added another possibility increasing the ability of the species to thrive in more scenarios - NOT just ONE where Mom is constantly in the infant's presence.***
...Additional options that are not as beneficial. (In the case of pumping, baby isn't receiving the benefit of skin to skin contact with mom. There is also the issue of the different way a baby sucks from the bottle- not related to the subject, but some find that not as beneficial as far as sucking pattern and even language development) And in the case of formula, there are potential risks as well as a lack of any immunological benefits imparted from breastmilk. So while there are technically "other options", those options aren't the ideal, nor are they biologically intended. As for the women in your family- out of curiosity, why is that? (Unable to breastfeed) I've never heard of such a thing. Yes, there are women incapable of it (about 1% of the population) but I've never heard of a case where a grouping of women from the same family have been incapable of lactation. But then, I guess there are so many women who run into problems and then assume they "can't" that it shouldn't surprise me... It's sad the lack of information and troubleshooting support that we have for nursing mothers in this culture...
***Exactly. Either way, it's an additional option, and gives us more flexibility. In that way, yes it IS extending our abilities.***
In what manner? Extending convenience for mothers? Extending the lives of some few babies whose mothers are unable to do as nature intended? Is convenience enough to consider it as 'extending our abilities'? And extention at what cost?
***I don't know how comfortable it is for those who would have to give up 50, 75, or 100% of their income to do it.***
For my part, the issue with breastfeeding was merely a nod to our mammalian roots- in generations past, it would have been a complete non-issue as far as income was concerned.
***I have personally BF'd both kids and didn't find it convenient, either. That may just be a personal thing, though.***
I thought you said that the women in your family were unable to breastfeed? Were you meaning everyone but yourself?
***Your DH is in IT, right? WAH Fulltime?***
He's in IT, but he's WOH fulltime.
***I have the same type of gig, supporting my family. Go to him, ask him what would happen if he quit his job for 3 years, and get back to me. Seriously.***
He's a bit of the exception in the IT field, Jack of all trades, Master of darn near anything he puts his hands on... In his case, he'd be able to get back into the field in a heartbeat providing he kept his education up to date (he's completely self-taught so he'd have to study at home) and he'd have to keep his foot in the door with some networking and he'd want to keep some side projects going from home, but other than that, if he wanted to do it and I was able to support the family, he could do so. Now- again, I realize he's the exception- the IT field has definately had a closing of doors so to speak and things have tightened up quite a bit in recent years, but...
***I just assume we're less organized and disciplined than everyone else :)***
*Chuckle* Somehow I doubt that ;)
***Plus, we have the House from Hell***
What- repair/maintenance wise?
***my DH is trying very hard to become Breadwinner***
Is he WOH now, or WAH, just that you make more of an income, or is he a SAHD or....?
***at the same time I'm actually DOING it, and trying to get 8+ hours of work/day done by 2 PM.***
I can't even imagine having to do that- which is why I just don't "get" the militant WOHM position that they do it for "personal fulfillment"... I know I'd be a huge stress ball and absolutely miserable if I had to not only put in my 40+hrs but take care of the kids, the house etc. etc. I can certainly understand the "we have to if we want to stay afloat financially" but... IMO it's an issue of "whatever works", but it certainly wouldn't for *me* ;) (For the record- I may argue the benefits of SAH, but I really couldn't care less whether one WOH, WAH or SAH- It's just fun to debate ;) So long as the kids are happy, fed, sheltered, loved and all that- it's all good as far as I'm concerned *LOL*
***Let's just say, my kid really REALLY doesn't suffer with us working. However, *MOM* does.***
Yeah- I hear ya... (((Sympathy))) Go take a nice long bubble bath and have an icy cold beer :) Trust me- the whole world looks better after that ;)
Wytchy
From you:
PumpkinAngel
"How many caergivers/teachers has your child had. Lets see she had a kindy teacher and how ever many grades she has completed.
Zero substitute caregivers. If you'll remember we use(d) only parental and extended family care (starting at the age of 4).
1 Pre-K Teacher, 1 Kindegarten teacher, 1 First grade teacher, 1 second grade teacher.
"Is that what you mean by the same caregiver/teacher?"
I didn't make this claim you did.
"I see you ignored the fact that sah/woh had NO IMPACT on the number of caregivers."
So you think your SAH has had NO IMPACT on the number of caregivers that your youngest child has had, seeing as he currently SAH with you?
"I found the links Kristi posted very interesting. I had no idea of some of those things that were there."
Such as? Could yoube a little more specific than, " I had no idea of some of those things that were there."
"I also read quite a bit about the industrial revolution and refreshed my memory about the impact that it had socially on families."
So, you learned something from *your* own research? How exactly is this learning from *others*?
"I learned about about early humans and what fossils have been discovered dating humans on earth."
So, you learned something from *your* own research? Again, How exactly is this learning from *others*?
"I learned quite a bit about life from those PBS links I posted to savcal about frontier and colonial house."
So once again you learned something from *your* own research? Again, How exactly is this learning from *others*?
"Additional options that are not as beneficial. (In the case of pumping, baby isn't receiving the benefit of skin to skin contact with mom. There is also the issue of the different way a baby sucks from the bottle- not related to the subject, but some find that not as beneficial as far as sucking pattern and even language development)"
You are correct. BTW, there is also the issue of valuable nutrients being lost in the process of pumping, freezing, thawing, and bottle feeding EBM.
"And in the case of formula, there are potential risks as well as a lack of any immunological benefits imparted from breastmilk."
Yes, in addition to the fact that formula is simply inferior to breastmilk. Also, (as youhave already mentioned in previous posts) a mother's breastmilk is specifically designed for her own infant. And there's the issue of increased IQ, as well.
"So while there are technically "other options", those options aren't the ideal, nor are they biologically intended. "
Indeed, they are not ideal, nor are they biologically intended.
"As for the women in your family- out of curiosity, why is that? (Unable to breastfeed) I've never heard of such a thing. Yes, there are women incapable of it (about 1% of the population) but I've never heard of a case where a grouping of women from the same family have been incapable of lactation."
I've never heard of this either.
"But then, I guess there are so many women who run into problems and then assume they "can't" that it shouldn't surprise me... It's sad the lack of information and troubleshooting support that we have for nursing mothers in this culture... "
Too true!!!
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Why would I be more specific?
PumpkinAngel
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