how do i convince my husband

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2004
how do i convince my husband
1841
Mon, 07-18-2005 - 4:09pm
how do i convince my husband to let me at least job-share so i can take care of our 3 month old dd? he grew up with his mom working & all his friend's moms working. we can afford it if we cut back on some things, but he doesn't want to cut back & just doesn't understand someone wanting to be a stay at home mom...it doesn't help mycause that the grandmothers will babysit. i'm so unhappy about having to go back to work...he wants me to work full time 1 more year & just doesn't get it! i feel like my heart is being ripped from my chest every time i hink about it.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-18-2003
Mon, 08-08-2005 - 11:21am
All day? I've never known a mother that nursed 24 hours a day. Certainly I've known those

Choose your friends by their character and your socks by their color.  Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 08-08-2005 - 11:27am

Zak was a quick nurser. 10-15 minutes top on each breast. He was done and ready to do other things.


Alex, on the other hand, is the slowest eater in the world. He is still is. I never nursed for 24 hours a day but there were days when I felt I had spent the whole day with him attached to my breast. He lingered. He stroked. He took a break and went back to eating. He, as he got older, would look around and play then go back to eating. He was never a focused eater and I let him take his time.


I once saw a mother gorilla sitting on a rock while her baby nursed. She sat there patiently while the baby took its time. We went to another exhibit and came back. She was still sitting there and the baby was still nursing. I could so identify with her. I felt like I spent a large portion of my day sitting in a chair nursing Alex.


So,

"I do not want to be a princess! I want to be myself"

Mallory (age 3)

      &nbs

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-27-1998
Mon, 08-08-2005 - 11:29am

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Why is that the only real difference?

PumpkinAngel

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-04-2004
Mon, 08-08-2005 - 12:05pm

***The women earned money outside of the home. She bought and planted a vineyard with her earned money. She made and sold her linens. She traded her goods. If this is not a wohm, then you need to explain to me your definition of what a wohm, sahm and wahm are then, because they are not identifiable to me.***

Again- as I explained in a previous post- I see this as a situation much the same as what a WAHM of today would be doing by making her wares at home and selling them either online or through a local shop (not working in the shop herself). Or of owning a business and having others oversee it. I would classify that as a WAHM rather than a WOHM. Just because she earns her own wage and brings in money from outside the home doesn't IMO classify her as working outside of the home. If she, the Biblical woman in question, were laboring all day in a shop *as* a merchant or *in* the vineyard then that is what I would classify as a WOHM.

***This is something that has always taught to me in this reference. Working at the city gates and sitting among the elders was considered an unpaid position although very highly honored position.***

Again- please provide your references for this. Who taught you this, a church? And was it part of their standard doctrine? Which church? Etc. etc. etc. What historical references are *they* using (or feel free just to give me the info on denomination and I'll give the clergy a ring myself because I'm curious.)

***He most likely had another position in which he did earn money....however that does not change the fact that the women earned her own money.***

I never said she didn't earn her own money- just that we differ on our ideas of whether this constitutes WOH or WAH.

***Read the verse.***

I'm well familiar with the verse, thanks. Reading it again isn't changing our differences in interpretation.

***It says she considers a field and buys it our of her earnings, she plants a vineyard. I am suggesting the she looked for the field, then purchased it out of her own earnings and then she planted the field.***

Where does it say that she did the planting? Given the status of this woman is it not reasonable to guess that she likely had servants who did this manual work for her?

***Knowing a bit about what it takes to plant grapes and what they need in order to grow...yes I am saying it's work.***

Also knowing a bit about what it takes to work a vineyard, I'm very confident that she wasn't the one doing the planting. Not given the rest of the verse detailing her life.

***Since the verse also states that she purchased it out of her earnings (which she earned somewhere else) that yes, she owns it. I saying that since the verse said she searched for the field, then purchased it, then planted a vineyard....yes she owns it. If you don't consider that ownership...than what is?***

I'm not arguing against her ownership, I am arguing that there is a vast difference between owning/overseeing and doing the manual labor herself.

***So I can go to work outside of the home for pay and take my kids and be a sahm?***

What I am saying is that making crafts and taking them to be sold in the market is more along the line of WAH than WOH. The work is done in the home. (Or does the woman have an 'office' elsewhere?)

***That is not what I thought it generally denotes. A WAHM, is just that a work at home mom. Someone who does their work at home. Therefore a SAHM is a mom who does not earn an income....a stay at home mom.***

Then we're differing on our use of the terminology. As I am using it, WAHM= woman who does her work-for-pay inside the home, generally not utilizing 'othercare'. WOHM= woman who obviously works outside of the home, generally utilizing 'othercare' (including having school aged children). SAHM= woman who does not earn an income and provides primary care for her children. Given that childcare is one of, if not the most contested issue in the WOH/SAH debate, that is why I include childcare as a part of my definitions.

***I won't even comment on the *rarely* see her children when one is a wohm except to hope that wasn't a initial slam on the wohms.***

What I said was NOT that wohm's rarely see their children, but that they are rarely able to bring their children to work with them.

***I am trying to address the issue that the existed not that they were the norm, majority or even the exceptions....that wohm existed in ancient times. Others caring for and nursing children other than their own existed and have existed throughout time. Not the norm, not common....exist.***

Then for the most part we have no disagreements on the issues ;)

Wytchy

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
Mon, 08-08-2005 - 12:46pm

I'll try to answer your questions. I am not any kind of expert at language acquisition nor am I a disciple of Judith Rich Harris so I hope I don't botch this up!

"In the particular case she cites above, is she claiming that learning "accent-less" English is an example of peer influence dominating over parental influence?" Yes, I believe so but I'm not sure. She doesn't exactly offer it up as "proof" of the influence of the peer group but rather as a snippet in a chapter about personality and social context.
"If so, why?" Because if parental influence were so predominant, it would be almost impossible for a child to learn a new language (one not spoken at home) without an accent. (my guess)
"What if the parents are actively supporting their children's acquisition of accentless English?" I'm not sure. I'd bet that one way smart parents would do that is to encourage more encounters with peers who speak the desired language thus confirming the importance of the peer influence.
"What would happen of the parents were very negative about their children learning English?" Unless they kept the child out of school and out of contact with other English speaking children, they would not be able to keep the children from learning English and perhaps their lack of enthusiasm would have very little influence over whether they learned English well or not. (The kids would probably just learn not to "show" their English at home.) In fact, Harris talks at length about this very topic when she mentions what happened at schools for the deaf. Many schools for the deaf wanted the children to learn spoken English because it has a higher prestige factor out in society. But the children were desperate to learn American Sign Language, even if they were beaten for it. (Sign language was highly desired amoung the children.) Despite the efforts of the school leaders, deaf children learned sign language and it became their native language, the one kids thought and dreamt in. They learned it from (the ten percent of) children who came with sign language already learned (from a deaf home); they taught it to all the kids somehow. And when there was no one who knew sign language, the kids still managed to learn it (in one case, through the laundry woman.) So the point was that if the children "really wanted to behave like the majority of the adults in their community, they would have eschewed signing and concentrated on learning spoken English."

When I mentioned above about the immigrant child learning to speak accent-less English, I was just talking off the top of my head, having read this book about a year ago. As I refresh my memory and flip through the book, the main reason Harris mentions that case is because it points out how children do this thing called code-switching, where children learn one set of behaviors and rules (and perhaps language) to use at home and another to use Out There. They have two separate storage tanks in their mind, each contains stuff learned within a particular social context. So if you learned algebra in French and Calculus in English, you'd do algebra in French and calculus in English. It works for emotions as well. (A woman who spoke only Chinese with her parents found that when she was in graduate school she couldn't speak about "big ideas" in Chinese with her parents because she didn't have the vocabulary and she only spoke with them about loving thoughts and light topics like the weather up til then.)

The chapter where she talks about language and immigrants is one in which she is trying to point out that "normal people may behave differently in different social contexts but they carry the memories from one context to another. If they learn something in one situation, they do not necessarily make use of it in another." It is a building block on her way to explain her Nurture Assumption theory, that's all. She gives an example where researchers discovered that young children use a more advanced type of fantasy when playing with their mothers than without. But the catch is that when the child is playing alone or with a playmate, it makes no difference what kinds of games she played with her mother.

Sorry, I can't "fight" you on your particular language acquisition stuff. I think the situation you have with your children is so totally different than the Polish child dropped into rural Missouri that it can't be compared.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Mon, 08-08-2005 - 12:47pm

Here is an outline of my Dd’s On-Going Summer Art Activities/Projects.

1. Making her own soap - Melting glycerin and pouring it into molds to harden.

2. Making her own play dough - Made by Homemade Gourmet.

3. Making her own chalk - Making a chalk mixture, adding color, and pouring it into molds to harden.

4. Making her own stepping stones - Annual Summer Project.

5. Making her own gel candles.

6. Origami - Paper folding.

7. Working with clay - Making clay sculptures (potters clay/modeling clay). Working with a pottery wheel.

8. Sketch Book - On-going drawings/sketches of plants and animals from our trips to the zoo, bird watching, dd’s favorite animal, etc. Dd has been working on this particular project for 2+ years.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Mon, 08-08-2005 - 12:58pm

Here is an outline of my Dd’s On-Going Summer Music Activities/Projects.

1. Playing the Guitar - Dd is learning the Major/Minor/Bar Chords on the guitar.

2. Playing the Vioin - Dd is adding to her song list. She can play 20+ simple songs (ex. Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, Mary Had a Little Lamb, Row Row Row Your Boat, etc).

3. Making a Major/Minor/Bar Chord Book to help her remember the chords.

4. Writing Songs - Dd is learning how to put chords together with words that she has written to make her own songs.

5. Listening /Learning the lyrics to her favorite songs - Ex. Disney Music, Raffi, the soundtracks to various musicals (Annie, Sound of Music, Wizard of Oz, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory).

6. Singing/Playing the Guitar at the same time - Dh can play the guitar but can’t sing. I can sing but can’t play the guitar. Dd is learning to do both simultaneously (Her favorite is Tide is High by Blondie).

7. Making her own Cd - Dh is a Computer/Sound Engineering Wizard. Dd is recording voice/instrumental/drum tracks for the songs she has learned/is learning. A few years ago we made a Christmas Cd and sent it out to family members for Christmas (dd singing and dh playing the guitar) and they absolutely loved it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Mon, 08-08-2005 - 1:01pm

Here is an outline of Dd’s On-Going Summer Social Studies Activities/Projects.

1. Geography - Dd has been fascinated by world geography for about a year now. She can locate quite a few countries (Thanks in part to her Leap Frog Globe). Her favorites include (I asked her to list them) : Bosnia and Herzegovia, North/South Korea, China, Turkey, Chile, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Morocco, Western Sahara, Madagascar, Mauritania, Malta, Mali, Romania, Spain, Ukraine, Tunisia, Liberia, Oman, Pakistan, Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Federated States of Micronesia, New Zealand, Falkland Islands, Fiji, Brunei, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Papua New Guinea, Malaysia, etc. BTW, I had to stop her as Dd could go on and on.

2. Identifying/Making Flags of the World - Dd is also fascinated by the flags of different countries.

3. Identifying Famous Landmarks - This is another one of Dd’s fascinations.

4. Making a Famous Landmark/Places Book - Dd is making a book that includes a drawing as well as facts about her favorite landmarks/places. So far she has 17 entries. Her favorite include: Stonehenge, The Effiel Tower, Sydney Opera House, Galapagos Islands, The Great Wall of China, the Taj Mahal, etc.

5. Building 3D Puzzles of Landmarks - Dd and her dad have built three so far (The Effiel Tower, Big Ben, and St. Basil’s Cathedral).

6. Reading Magic Tree House Research Guides - The American Revolution, Pirates, Mummies and Pyramids, Olympics of Ancient Greece, Titanic, Knights and Castles.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Mon, 08-08-2005 - 1:24pm

BTW, I forgot to add the following to my Dd's On-Going Summer Science Activities :)

Reading Magic Tree House Research Guides

1. Dolphins and Sharks

2. Space

3. Rain Forests

4. Twisters and Other Terrible Storms

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 08-08-2005 - 1:50pm
Would you suggest the same approach to a woman who wanted to WOH

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