How do you do it?

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-07-2003
How do you do it?
1345
Fri, 12-12-2003 - 8:31pm
I hope I don't start a big controversy, but this is a debate board right?

I just have to ask those working moms....How do you do it?????

I am a Step-mom to two boys ages 6 and 9. I have a three year old that has been in minimal nursery school since he was one. He only goes three days a week for a couple of hours.

My step-sons BM (birth mother) just had a baby with her BF and this is her schedule:

She drops my step-sons at school to the morning-care program at 7:15AM (school starts at 8:45AM). She then drives her three month old baby to an in-home sitter that has five or six other kids at 7:45AM and then goes to work. She picks the baby up at 6:00PM and then she picks my SS up from after-care at 6:15PM (their school is over at 3:10PM). So my ss's are at school each day for 11 hours and the three month old baby is at a sitters for 10 hours each day!

Doesn't that seem like a lot! I just don't understand this. I offered to watch my SS's and she let me for two weeks and then got mad at my DH and put them back in the scholl child care program.

Why would you bother having children if someone else is going to raise them for you?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
Sat, 12-27-2003 - 9:38am
After school care means just that. These kids MUST go to school. So subtract those hours from the 11 that you are quoting.

The parents could do something to stagger or shorten the after or before school hours. But, really, the original post was regarding a woman who does not sound like she is the "best" mom. Or even a good mom.

All WOH Moms do not neglect, etc their children.

At the same time all SAH moms do not give the quality of care that you are trying to promote either. I know some SAH moms who are lazy and pretty awful. Their kids would benefit from a pre-school or daycare atmosphere.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
Sat, 12-27-2003 - 9:42am
Linda, you sound like a great provider and I wish you lived in my town. I'd love for my kids to stay with you during the day.
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-04-2002
Sat, 12-27-2003 - 3:02pm
Hi, I didn't read all of the previous 960+ posts but this topic has been bugging me since I saw it posted on the main page!

1.) I certainly wouldn't say my toddler's daycare provider (who happens to be his aunt) is raising him - I'm the one who buys his clothes and food, I take him to the doctor, I bathe him, I tell her what his schedule is and what discipline she should use (so we are consistent at both homes) and what foods he can and can't eat.

2.) I was an at home daycare provider for a few years and I never would have even thought that I was *raising* those children. I was taking care of them during the day, but again, their parents told me what they expected and I followed the parents wishes. My job was to take the best care possible of the children in their parents' absence, not to raise the kids.

3.) It disturbs me that there seems to be an economic consideration - if one parent cannot afford to stay home, then the family just should not bother having a child at all? My husband lost his job just after our son was born. I had not planned to go back to work, but economic considerations forced my hand. In this economy, I am far from the only mom I know who has no choice but to work. I am not going to waste precious time being miserable about this change of circumstances, I am making the best of it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003
Sat, 12-27-2003 - 4:27pm


I am so sick of this whole fight and the "when did you stop beating your wife?" nature of the "why would you have children if you don't want to raise them?" question.

WOHMs have children because they love them, because they love their partners and have love to give a child, because of a biological urge, because they accidently got pregnant--the same reason SAHMs have children. There are lots of reasons to have a child, maybe some better than others, but this is a stupid and mean-spirited question.

How much time is too much time in day care? Your child spends "three days a week for a couple of hours?" What is wrong with you? Why are you letting someone else raise your child? Do you ever go to a movie or out with your husband? Who watches the kids then? Maybe its your mother or mother-in-law. That's okay? It's not you.

How much TV do your kids watch? An hour, two hours, three hours? When they are watching, do you sit down with them every minute to be sure you are controlling their environment? Or do you get some dishes done? Do they ever play alone in their rooms or have play dates with friends? What is wrong with you?

What do you give up to stay at home? Is it worth it? Will it someday embarrass your kids that you don't have (whatever) or it's old?

Exactly what is involved in "raising?" Does this mean until the child is 18, it must spend every minute with you? No school, no friends, certainly no slumber parties or sleepovers at grandmas. Oh, these are okay? Why? The government tells you to send your kids to school at age 5 or 6. Why is that a magic age? I teach 3-year-old Sunday School, you bet I am helping you raise your child, why is that okay?

There are no right answers here. Each family has to make the right decision for them. No one else has the right to second-guess that. Maybe they made a mistake, but it won't be the first or the last and, guess what, you will make mistakes too. Of course, time matters. And quality of time matters too. If you are giving your kids both, more power to you. But there is no magic amount of time and no magical balance.

By the way, I am your mother's generation. My mother was not allowed by her dad to go to school after high school (secretarial school, for pete's sake) because she was just going to get married and have children. She was the greatest mom in the world and yes, she worked, as a secretary. We all had the opportunity to go to college or do whatever we wanted. But even in my own generation, there was a time when women could legally be paid less for work that was identical to that done by men--the rationale being that men worked to support a family while women worked for "extras"--regardless of the circumstances of the particular man or particular woman worker. I was routinely asked in job interviews what my plans for having children were, the implication being I wouldn't get the job if it wasn't the "right" answer. And I'm not 70, I'm 52. While you are criticizing WOHMs, be careful what you wish for. Caring for children is already not valued enough in society. If your backlash manages to succeed in painting all WOHMs as unloving and the fault of all the problems in the world are you sure your daughters will be treated fairly when they want to go to school and enter the workforce? Do you want to go back to the days when all your children's teachers must be "spinsters" who are required to stop teaching when they marry and "blush" have children? When you don't even have the choice of a female gynecologist or pediatrician because they are home raising their kids or worse, were denied entrance to medical school because they were just going to waste the education anyway?

Stop picking on other mothers. They love their children as much as you love yours. They are doing the best they can, as are you. Support each other, don't criticize each other. Get to know each other--neither road is easy.

Stop being mean and critical. It doesn't become you.

Grandma J

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-27-2003
Sat, 12-27-2003 - 6:22pm
I truly don't understand why this is even a conflict. It is a matter of opinion and preference whether we as moms want to work or stay at home. I was a stay at home mom for a year and liked it a lot but decided that I needed more mental stimulation and so now I am a working mom. My personal thought is why must we fight about it when it is just a choice, a personal choice that we as mothers are obligated to make. As long as our children are being well taken care of and we still spend as much time with them as possible, why is it such a big deal? We as mothers don't need to be fighting over whether we should stay at home or work, we should just be supportive of each others decisions and help each other out. Just a thought!
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sat, 12-27-2003 - 8:26pm
If you are sick of this fight (as you call it), why come to a DEBATE board? If you want a group hug there are many other forums more suitable for that.

I a bit too old (46) to have my hand slapped. Like you I was raised by a father whose aspirations for me consisted of secretarial school. I cut my teeth on feminism until I realized the issues they were championing had nothing to do with my life. Your post reminds me of why I avoid being labeled a feminist even though I fiercely agree that all PEOPLE are equal.

Sweetswah who will be a 1st time grandma next month :-)

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003
Sat, 12-27-2003 - 9:26pm
Because there's plenty of room for "debate" about the pros and cons of each choice without implying (heck, stating right up front) that anyone who dares to work outside the home doesn't want to raise her children. And I don't know you and didn't respond to your post, so I can't possibly have slapped your hand, besides which, you already told me if I want a hug go somewhere else. So if you don't want your hand slapped, perhaps you are on the wrong board as well.

At this point in my life--which has been exceedingly difficult in a number of ways--I would much prefer to give hugs and get them. But we can't always have what we prefer and I'm going to stand up for moms who both love their children and work--because they have to or because they didn't stop being human beings with their own needs, desires and talents when they became mothers. That's my hug to them. But if they were telling SAH moms that they must work outside the home and that they're being selfish and not contributing to society (or whatever reason they might give) I would rise to the defense of the SAHMs just as quickly and just as fiercely.

I would love to have a discussion about feminism and its original goals and where it has succeeded and where I believe it has gone seriously astray. But if it has to start with name calling or accusations, I'm not interested. And that's how this particular discussion started and it's the one I responded to.

If you believe you've made the right choice, why are you defensive and why do you feel the need to criticize others who made a different choice?

Grandma J


iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sat, 12-27-2003 - 9:55pm
Oh for crissakes, put away the milkbone undies.

Something I'm curious about is your following statement:

<>

This smacks of sahm-bashing, elitism and classism and because this is a debate board I'd like you to explain what you mean by it in further detail.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003
Sat, 12-27-2003 - 10:36pm


I don't have a clue what milkbone undies are.

I actually was just raising questions. I was a working mom, but pretty poor (a single mom, with a very small amount of child support--they didn't use formulas back then to ensure fairness), and my daughter's friends were affluent. So she was embarrassed to bring them home because we didn't have a VCR and we lived in an apartment in a not as nice part of town.

My brother and his wife chose for her to be a SAHM until their youngest of four was in elementary school. He had a decent job and they were good money managers and I don't think there was ever a reason for their kids to feel embarrassed. I admire them and the sacrifices I know they made and their children are achievers and their parents can be very proud of them. By the way, I have told them so.

In these examples, it was the working mom who caused the embarrassment and I had no choice, but I was pointing out that kids are easily embarrassed in front of their peers.

I am incredibly proud of my daughter, who did everything in the right order, she finished high school, went to college, got a good job, met her husband, had three children and now works part-time. They are upper middle class and she has all the things she didn't have when she was a kid. They are important to her. But that doesn't mean she doesn't love her children. When she is with those children, she is so completely with them. Watching her with them is a joy. And she could afford to stay home full-time, but she is filling a hole from her childhood and she enjoys her job. I refuse to accept that she is wrong because she wants material things--even though those things would not be nearly as important to me. She is an incredibly hard worker--at her job and at home. She is a better mother than I could ever have dreamed of being--though I am a wonderful grandmother.

My questions were not meant to be critical of SAHM moms, simply to point out that the argument can go both ways and I was quite angry at the charge that WOHMs don't raise their kids. You bet I raised my kids and it was gosh awful hard to do it alone without having to hear about how WOHMs in general and single mothers in particular are the root of all our problems. It's hard to be a mother and I believe we need to support one another and we can have debates without questioning each other's love for their children.

By the way, congratulations on your impending grandmotherhood. However wonderful you believe it will be, it's better than that.

And even though this is a debate board...

Hugs.

Grandma J

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sat, 12-27-2003 - 11:06pm
Thank you for clarifying what you meant.

Sounds to me like you were and are a wonderful mother. You have every reason to be proud of your dd but don't sell yourself short (by saying she is a better mother than you could ever have dreamed of being). She is what she is because she was raised by you.

Thanks for the congrats. I'm gonna LOVE being a grandmomma, I just know it.

Milkbone undies is, well, a cousin of the flame retardent bodysuit. Sort of.

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